RDNKJ

I'm sorry if this thread is in the wrong place, but I wasn't sure where else to put it, and the original thread didn't seem to be the appropriate place, since answers to my question could potentially hijack the thread.

In the thread "Navajo Powwows" the original poster stated that his grandfather (?) had an "indian face." Part of the response from Kaina was:

"saying that someone has an "indian face" can be seen as pretty offensive...".

My question is why? Please, I am not trying to offend anyone, I sincerely do not understand why that statement is offensive. I am certainly not trying to argue with anyone or to tell anyone what they should or should not be offended by. As a Jew, there are things that offend me that non-Jews wouldn't understand why I was offended unless I explained it to them. To me, this is a similar situation. I just don't get it.

I know that there is no one particular Native "look." But, different ethnic groups can and do look different. Using European examples, the English don't really look like the Dutch; the Dutch don't look like the French; the French don't look like the Czechs, etc...(even though some people think we all look alike ).

Although the original poster phrased it clumsily, I don't understand why it offensive to say that someone looks Native.

I've already put my hoof squarely in my mouth (at least) once on these forums, so I hope no one is offended by my question. That is one of the reasons I have stuck around this website after my original questions were answered, to better understand.

Thank you for your patience.

OLChemist

I can't speak for the original poster, but I can tell you how my experiences make me respond to that statement, particularly within the original context.

It's part of the hollyweird, Indian on the nickel syndrome. The statement is a variation of the "great-grandma was an Indian, she had high cheekbones" or "grandpa was an Indian, he had that raven black hair" comments we all hear. It is like a person saying: "grandpa was a Jew, he had a big nose."

The dominant culture determines Indian identity based on a set of their own criterion, which is based almost entirely on their stereotypical constructs of Native behavior and phenotype, not on our cultural markers. Those of us who do not have the Dance's With Wolves extra physiognomy are frequently determined to be inauthentic by non-Indians because of these narrow preconceptions of Native appearance. Once judged to be not a "real Indian", it is but a small step to resentment over preceived illegitimate access to treaty rights.

soopashinaab

I'm gonna throw my two cents into the barrel...

I think we are too sensitive nowadays, seems no matter how hard you try not to offend some one... you end up tickin someone off anyways. I had a guy ask me one time... "What do you prefer to be called??" (american indian, native american, or indian) I about fell over. He meant no offense in what he asked, he really wanted to know. I told him "It really didn't matter to me." As long as some one isn't being blatantly offensive what's the big deal? There is always going to be something, that is going to rub someone the wrong way. No offense of course!

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lostsalt

OUTSTANDING POST!

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timmy tiger

I have to agree with Soopa here too. No matter what you say or how you intend it, someone somewhere is going to get offended and come at you. It happens all the time.

Some people are just way too sensitive, but should remember, many times, that there are no tones on a computer--so what might be meant as just a calm nice statement--someone else (depending on their mood too) could take it more so then other's would. Unfortunately that does happen.

ac_miss

Good words! That's exactly why I'm put off by comments from people such as "i have high cheekbones, can you tell I'm ndn?" I used to hear that all the time when i worked in tourism industry. Comments like that just floored me.

Yep yep. Exactly!

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NancyJo

Hey OLChemist!! You always manage to speak the words I'm thinking.

rez_hopper

OMG
Big Nose..............We are jews!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RDNKJ

Just don't go around saying your g-grandmother was a Jewish princess - as opposed to a JAP - Jewish American Princess!

RDNKJ

So, does it depend on context?

Oh my! I've never heard that, but I have been told "Funny, you don't look Jewish." My response, in my best Yiddischer accent and flailing hands: Vat?! Vith a nose like dis, I could hide I'm a Jew?! lol

Aaah! Interesting. The treaty rights aspect, and the implied illegitimate access to them, hadn't occurred to me. I was thinking of it in a purely superficial sense; just describing what someone looks like.

Kaina1128

That's my response.

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timmy tiger

And that's exactly what Soopa was talking about. It's the hollyweird mentality that does that. Many people that I know do something about that. I have many friends, and I have even helped them out, do diversity seminar's and I have a friend with the VA that even did a film on the diversity of the Native Culture and at the time he wanted me in the film, but I couldn't be there.LOL

But being offended--by someone's lack of knowledge? Ask them why they would say that? Where they are coming from first. At least that's what I try to do--but then that will get someone else offended too, at times. Share with someone what you know, if they are open to hearing and listening to it. The only way to do that is to ask them questions first to find out where they are coming from. But to judge without knowledge of where the other person is coming from, just doesn't seem right to me. Just my opinion here.

RDNKJ