We All Should Pay Attention To Lumbee Thread/struggle

lostsalt · 12-20-2005, 06:31 PM

We all, at one point or another, are aware of the situation/issues the Lumbee people are experienceing. Either thru this site or friens or our own experiences.
I have seen good natured joking and more sinister posts from other natives not currently "with a dog in the fight".

I think alot of us are missing the true point here. Our brothers and sisters in Carolina are fighting the same battle that future generations will be fighting in the next two generations.

The damage to the history, legacy, language, etc. of the easten groups was done years ago. The systematic governmental policies were made to eradicate "the people".
It is no accident that records are not available, true histories never recorded. How Census takers in the south were mandated to apply black or white to people regardless of true affiliation. The mixing of the tribes was forced. The destruction of records planned.
THEY LOVE NOTHING MORE THAN TO SEE US TEAR EACH OTHER APART.
You know it works.
I remember dancing @ Lumbee Homecoming in the early 1990s. Their was a shooting @ the powwow. Someone was arguing with a vendor about heritage and blood quantum. He claimed the guy was not Lumbee but Tusc. This man died right outside my tent.(This is not a crack at anyone, violence is everywhere) Incredible. red on red crime must stop. We (all ndn people) keep failing into the same "FED GOV boby-trap"

I wish I knew the answer, The anxst of some many people is pointless.
I have ramble toooo long. My point is this....
Pay attention this issue is not limited to the Carolina Natives.
This may be your childs fight,grandchilds fight,greatgrandchilds fight also.
How many tribes west of the mississippi, have blood quantum requirements, no intertribal/racial marriages/ people relocated off the rez. These issues are very simular.
Yours in peace,
Lostsalt.

WhoMe · 12-21-2005, 10:45 AM

Lostsalt,

It seems it is harder to gain federal recognition in - this day and time - than it is to lose it.

Two years ago, there were 567 federally recognized tribes. More current figures state there are only 562 now. Hmmmm?

I agree that we as "Indian people should help and encourage one another rather than pull each other down when we individually try to succeed."

DANCINGEAGLE · 12-21-2005, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhoMe

Lostsalt,

It seems it is harder to gain federal recognition in - this day and time - than it is to lose it.

Two years ago, there were 567 federally recognized tribes. More current figures state there are only 562 now. Hmmmm?

I agree that we as "Indian people should help and encourage one another rather than pull each other down when we individually try to succeed."

I agree with that whole heartedly.

Roskerah · 12-21-2005, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lostsalt

We all, at one point or another, are aware of the situation/issues the Lumbee people are experienceing. Either thru this site or friens or our own experiences.
I have seen good natured joking and more sinister posts from other natives not currently "with a dog in the fight".

I think alot of us are missing the true point here. Our brothers and sisters in Carolina are fighting the same battle that future generations will be fighting in the next two generations.

The damage to the history, legacy, language, etc. of the easten groups was done years ago. The systematic governmental policies were made to eradicate "the people".
It is no accident that records are not available, true histories never recorded. How Census takers in the south were mandated to apply black or white to people regardless of true affiliation. The mixing of the tribes was forced. The destruction of records planned.
THEY LOVE NOTHING MORE THAN TO SEE US TEAR EACH OTHER APART.
You know it works.
I remember dancing @ Lumbee Homecoming in the early 1990s. Their was a shooting @ the powwow. Someone was arguing with a vendor about heritage and blood quantum. He claimed the guy was not Lumbee but Tusc. This man died right outside my tent.(This is not a crack at anyone, violence is everywhere) Incredible. red on red crime must stop. We (all ndn people) keep failing into the same "FED GOV boby-trap"

I wish I knew the answer, The anxst of some many people is pointless.
I have ramble toooo long. My point is this....
Pay attention this issue is not limited to the Carolina Natives.
This may be your childs fight,grandchilds fight,greatgrandchilds fight also.
How many tribes west of the mississippi, have blood quantum requirements, no intertribal/racial marriages/ people relocated off the rez. These issues are very simular.
Yours in peace,
Lostsalt.

Chwe'n,
Great way of putting it lostsalt. That is exactly right.

If I may add alittle something to it, and you hit on this in your post, but I want to reitterate to the other Nations of TurtleIsland that our story here, Lumbee and Tuscarora, gives a great example to other Native Nations what not to let happen to them.

For the most part, the Lumbee and Tuscarora here are mainly just "American Citizens" that are living their lives by "American" standards, living the "American Dream", what ever that is. It has been an "American nightmare", as far as I am concerned. Most here vote in local and national elections, hold elected offices, have formed U.S. or state corporations, and only have bits and pieces of our "true" history to pass on to the next generations to come.

Like lostsalt said, this no accident, but has been a systematic deliberate process that the government "perfected" with the people here, and now we here, are the "template" and desired outcome for the rest of Indian country.

On the other thread, I have posted just snippetes of history that has been covered up here, with only a very few who have known these things. Look into your own Nations/Tribes, and compare yourselves to our situation here today. How long will it take for your people to be in the same boat? Are you as an individual going to let these things happen to you and your people, or are you going do your part to stop it before it starts?

By the way Lostsalt, you mentioned a guy being killed at the Powwow years ago; that guys name was Taft Brooks Jr., and he was a son of one of the "22". He was just one of many that has been victimized by the system, and he battled alcohol for many years.

Ooneh,
Chris

red n black cutie · 12-21-2005, 01:53 PM

I agree, not only do we need to pull together, we need to teach our children their history. The good bad and ugly. We need to force feed them if needed, education and the value of how far and benifical it can be to the people. We need more Native lawyers and doctors and those in positions to make change. If we teach our children the value of who they are as a people and the beauty of their culture, we won't have to worry about them not coming back to help after their have earned their degrees.

**NDNQt** · 12-22-2005, 07:47 AM

But from what I can remember the shooting happened in the middle of the night and the victim was being loud, bothering people and making threatning remarks to families that were camped out. THis is just what I remember and it may not even be the same incident.

lostsalt · 12-22-2005, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NDNQt

But from what I can remember the shooting happened in the middle of the night and the victim was being loud, bothering people and making threatning remarks to families that were camped out. THis is just what I remember and it may not even be the same incident.

You're right, that is how it went. It was absolutely a self defense thing. The man the was shot was very aggresive, and had threaten several on the grounds.

I only brought it up to shine a light on the fact that, we are constantly being destroyed by ourselves to do some one elses bidding.

wannabeUrNo1Snag · 12-22-2005, 01:12 PM

which really has nuttin to do with the lumbee situation??

Roskerah · 12-22-2005, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wannabeUrNo1Snag

which really has nuttin to do with the lumbee situation??

Chwe'n,
Actually it has alot to do with the Lumbee situation, aswell as every other nation. Pertaining to the alcohol that is.

Taft was the nicest and most humble person you would ever meet when he was not drinking, yet he turned into a bully when under the influence. That old saying that most Indians can't drink is very true in most regards, because the DNA of Natives here on TurtleIsland is not programmed to handle alcohol like other European races that have been using it for thousands of years versus only 500 years here.

Just like most places in Indian country, alcohol contributes to more violence/death/problems than anything else. Now, N.C. has just passed a law which has gone into effect that allows up to 15 percent alcohol beer, compared to only 6 percent earlier this year. This means that a person only has to drink half as much, and still get just as high as before. With the amount of deaths from DUI related accidents, this should have been the last law passed, but, I guess the added income from the alcohol distributor kickbacks weighs more heavily than the death toll of the people they claim to represent.

Ooneh,
Chris

WhoMe · 12-22-2005, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roskerah

That old saying that most Indians can't drink is very true in most regards, because the DNA of Natives here on TurtleIsland is not programmed to handle alcohol like other European races that have been using it for thousands of years versus only 500 years here.

Ooneh,
Chris

Chris,

That old saying "is a crock of BS."

Labelling "most Indians" under one sterotype is totally false and wrong.

How ANY individual handles alcohol is related to several factors: Size, weight, food intake, number of drinks over period of time, elevation during consumption, etc.

MOST people change personalities, regardless of race, when they drink too much.

Bringing alcohol into a conversation about LUMBEES really does not improve theirs or anybody's status.

Roskerah · 12-22-2005, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhoMe

Chris,

That old saying "is a crock of BS."

Labelling "most Indians" under one sterotype is totally false and wrong.

How ANY individual handles alcohol is related to several factors: Size, weight, food intake, number of drinks over period of time, elevation during consumption, etc.

MOST people change personalities, regardless of race, when they drink too much.

Bringing alcohol into a conversation about LUMBEES really does not improve theirs or anybody's status.

Chwe'n,
I think you missed my point. This is not about Lumbee only. It is about all Native Nations, and factors that have contributed to where they are today, and how they got there. This thread was started talking to all other Nations, BUT, the Lumbee.

Alcohol was brought in to the disscussion when we were talking about the guy who was killed, and it started from there. This man who was killed was not Lumbee, so we are not talking about Lumbee in particular.

Whether my statement is BS or not, I know "Indian" people(my own family)that change from only one beer, who have drank all of their lives. (I am speaking from my own perspective) The Great Law(Iroquois Teachings) call alcohol "mind changer, oonecka", and is outlawed completely in the Handsomelake "traditional teachings". Some accept these teachings, and others don't, but many of Handsomelake's predictions are coming to pass.

Ooneh,
Chris

WhoMe · 12-22-2005, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roskerah

Chwe'n,
I think you missed my point. This is not about Lumbee only. It is about all Native Nations, and factors that have contributed to where they are today,

I know "Indian" people(my own family)that change from only one beer, who have drank all of their lives. (I am speaking from my own perspective) The Great Law(Iroquois Teachings) call alcohol "mind changer, oonecka", and is outlawed completely in the Handsomelake "traditional teachings". Some accept these teachings, and others don't, but many of Handsomelake's predictions are coming to pass.

Ooneh,
Chris

I live in a community with a high percentage of Indian people when compared to the rest of the country. On our local news, more often than not, people who are not Indian are involved in alcohol related incidents. There is no generalization that equates Indian people with alcohol.

This thread is titled "Attention to Lumbee Thread/Struggle." It is too bad that the focus is with alcohol and becomes associated with the it's title.

I have met many good Lumbee people who do not drink alcohol.

Roskerah · 12-22-2005, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhoMe

I live in a community with a high percentage of Indian people when compared to the rest of the country. On our local news, more often than not, people who are not Indian are involved in alcohol related incidents. There is no generalization that equat

12-20-2005, 06:31 PM	#1 (permalink)
lostsalt One more push-up,Please! Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: where the missouri & kaw rivers meet Posts: 319	We All Should Pay Attention To Lumbee Thread/struggle We all, at one point or another, are aware of the situation/issues the Lumbee people are experienceing. Either thru this site or friens or our own experiences. I have seen good natured joking and more sinister posts from other natives not currently "with a dog in the fight". I think alot of us are missing the true point here. Our brothers and sisters in Carolina are fighting the same battle that future generations will be fighting in the next two generations. The damage to the history, legacy, language, etc. of the easten groups was done years ago. The systematic governmental policies were made to eradicate "the people". It is no accident that records are not available, true histories never recorded. How Census takers in the south were mandated to apply black or white to people regardless of true affiliation. The mixing of the tribes was forced. The destruction of records planned. THEY LOVE NOTHING MORE THAN TO SEE US TEAR EACH OTHER APART. You know it works. I remember dancing @ Lumbee Homecoming in the early 1990s. Their was a shooting @ the powwow. Someone was arguing with a vendor about heritage and blood quantum. He claimed the guy was not Lumbee but Tusc. This man died right outside my tent.(This is not a crack at anyone, violence is everywhere) Incredible. red on red crime must stop. We (all ndn people) keep failing into the same "FED GOV boby-trap" I wish I knew the answer, The anxst of some many people is pointless. I have ramble toooo long. My point is this.... Pay attention this issue is not limited to the Carolina Natives. This may be your childs fight,grandchilds fight,greatgrandchilds fight also. How many tribes west of the mississippi, have blood quantum requirements, no intertribal/racial marriages/ people relocated off the rez. These issues are very simular. Yours in peace, Lostsalt.

12-21-2005, 10:45 AM	#2 (permalink)
WhoMe PauWau Coordinator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Land of 370 Broken Treaties Posts: 5,560	Lostsalt, It seems it is harder to gain federal recognition in - this day and time - than it is to lose it. Two years ago, there were 567 federally recognized tribes. More current figures state there are only 562 now. Hmmmm? I agree that we as "Indian people should help and encourage one another rather than pull each other down when we individually try to succeed." __________________ "Today, recognizing and respecting the origins of powwow aids in our Cultural Survival. If enough people break the rules because they are not satisfied...."We will have no culture." WhoMe

12-22-2005, 07:47 AM	#6 (permalink)
NDNQt PowWows.com Addicts Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Aylett, VA Posts: 1,076	But from what I can remember the shooting happened in the middle of the night and the victim was being loud, bothering people and making threatning remarks to families that were camped out. THis is just what I remember and it may not even be the same incident. __________________ Becky B.

12-22-2005, 01:12 PM	#8 (permalink)
wannabeUrNo1Snag is a talking Magpie Join Date: May 2003 Location: the state where disaster strikes every couple yrs Posts: 658	which really has nuttin to do with the lumbee situation?? __________________ "would u like to lick the frybread greaze off of my lippz??" check out - http://www.iGive.com/porcupineclinic

12-21-2005, 01:53 PM	#5 (permalink)
red n black cutie Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Omaha Posts: 49	I agree, not only do we need to pull together, we need to teach our children their history. The good bad and ugly. We need to force feed them if needed, education and the value of how far and benifical it can be to the people. We need more Native lawyers and doctors and those in positions to make change. If we teach our children the value of who they are as a people and the beauty of their culture, we won't have to worry about them not coming back to help after their have earned their degrees.