Exposing The Fake Medicine Men And Women - Page 4

OLChemist · 07-25-2008, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by annie_griffin

...I find it strange that people playing dress up could be considered such a threat to anything.

Putting aside the metaphysical dimension of this type of appropriation, let us just speak of the effects of distortion. Native people are still the invisible Americans. Most in the dominant culture "know" what Indians are like. They draw on a 500+ year accretion of stereotypes to view us: We commune with nature; we are spiritual all the time; we all have "totem" animals; we have LSD-esque visions all the time....

When these charlatans pedal their faked wares as our essence, it just adds another layer. When real Native people speak out, we speak from the authority of our oral tradition, which to the dominant culture lacks the imprimatur of authenticity conferred upon anything that has been committed to paper and ink like these books. Our voice is drown out.

Given enough time and enough lies, real Native people and their ways will come to fail to fulfill dominant culture fantasy and thus satisfy their standards of authenticity. Ultimately, the performances of those practicing their fraudulent and stolen versions of Native lifeways come to be regarded as "real". The conquerer takes up our skin and supplants us. And once the invaders become the Natives, the Indian problem is "solved".

Quote:

Originally Posted by annie_griffin

I find it odd that people being intentionally hurt spiritually as some kind of revenge for this dress up is applauded.

I don't think anyone wants these sad people victimized. Which is part of why many of us warn about these individual's actions. I've spoken with several people who have come to this board seeking guidance who have been sexually victimized in the context of "ceremonies."

New2itall · 07-25-2008, 02:48 PM

Given enough time and enough lies, real Native people and their ways will come to fail to fulfill dominant culture fantasy and thus satisfy their standards of authenticity. Ultimately, the performances of those practicing their fraudulent and stolen versions of Native lifeways come to be regarded as "real". The conquerer takes up our skin and supplants us. And once the invaders become the Natives, the Indian problem is "solved".

Very well worded!

tiffany.redfeather · 07-25-2008, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Czechy

Does it seem to you that more Native people are getting sucked into the commercialization of their own spiritual culture, for the money and fame? Certainly there are more non-Indian plastic shamans and shamanesses (lol) than Native ones, but it makes me wonder why such people sell out when they know they will get caught eventually and the consequences can be severe.

White Americans and Europeans do go gaga over some of the world's other cultures. The Hindu guru-disciple system is a common one. I roll my eyes every time I see a male swami or guru with a young, cute, sari-clad white American "girlfriend" in tow. Here too, its hard to figure out the real spiritual people from the fake ones.

AHO! MITAKUYE OYASIN,

that is what we are saying, there is a buy here pay here medicine man in our town, my aunt was mislead and married him while he cheated on her all of the time. He is in it for the fame. We see him at powwows an here an there an just the way he walks like a movie star its ridiculous...

just watch an observe the rest will follow an you can tell...

tiffany.redfeather · 07-25-2008, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackbear

I watched Wife Swap on Wednesday and was surprised by the family they had their that were known to be "intellectuals". They not only were ghost hunters who believed the specks of dust in their digital photos to be "orbs" but the father was standing in the middle of a cemetary in IL where they are from, supposedly singing a prayer song cause he's of course, a shaman. And even though he was speaking in Lakota, his song was the iroquois Robin Dance... better known as a Smoke Dance song LOL!! Where do people come up with this stuff? Is it THAT easy to fall for or are people just that ill in the world???

that sounds like a joke... lol

re arrange it a lil bit an put it in the joke thread.... that is a good one!!!

Coyot_In_The_House · 10-03-2008, 01:36 PM

...

blueskysmom · 10-09-2008, 12:20 PM

Could it be we are talking about a different Sun Bear? I had a girl in my class in boarding school whose last name was Sun Bear and she was Lakota. I guess I kind of want to believe that Winona LaDuke's relative is not what we think he was.

Historian · 10-09-2008, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueskysmom

Could it be we are talking about a different Sun Bear? I had a girl in my class in boarding school whose last name was Sun Bear and she was Lakota. I guess I kind of want to believe that Winona LaDuke's relative is not what we think he was.

Sun Bear (aka Vincent LaDuke; aka Gheezis Mokwa) was White Earth Ojibwa
Born: 1929 (White Earth Rez - Minnesota)
Died: 1992
Founder of the Bear Tribe Medicine Society

Author of...

Black Dawn, Bright Day: Indian Prophecies for the Millenium that Reveal the Fate of the Earth
New York: Simon & Schuster, 1992.

Dreaming with the wheel: how to interpret and work with your dreams using the medicine wheel
New York : Simon & Schuster, 1994.

The medicine wheel: earth astrology
New York: Fireside Book, 1992.

Sun Bear, the path of power: as told to Wabun and to Barry Weinstock
New York: Prentice Hall Press, 1987.

Walk in balance: the path to healthy, happy, harmonious living
New York : Simon & Schuster, 1992.

blueskysmom · 10-09-2008, 01:09 PM

Thanks Historian. I guess I had to have that confirmed for sure. I'm not too concerned about all the plastic medicine people (new agers) running around (non natives) cause they will get their due. I am worried about our indian people who are into spirituality for the money. Our belief is that even their innocent relatives will get hurt. If they were true Natives at heart and know the philosophy of the Red Road then they wouldn't be doing such terrible things. Innocent people are affected. What goes around comes around.

badgermademedoit · 10-22-2008, 06:20 PM

A lot of medicine men, if it weren't for government housing, wouldn't have a roof over their heads. A lot of tribes don't take care of their holy people, they leave them to hold their own. In one case, the medicine man had worked off reservation in a job that provided him with a small retirement pension, or he would have had no money coming in.

People seem to think that the government just hands money to Indian people to squander. The truth is that while the BIA had control of individual properties allotted to tribal members the BIA rented it out to white farmers and ranchers at $20 per year per 1000 acres. Since most tribal members had less than 1000 acres, that wasn't much of an annual income.

One woman I know received a check for 33 cents back when a pack of cigarettes cost 30 cents plus 3 cents tax in the town where she was living. She was flat broke and needed smokes, so she cashed the check and got a pack of cigarettes, for her share of a year's rental agreement.

The medicine man with the small pension lived on commodities, as did his family. He would mix maple flavoring with commodities corn syrup and use that on his pancakes made from commodities. Having a sandwich made with store bought balogney and store bought bread was a luxury. Instead, his wife made bread from commodities flour or they wouldn't have had bread in the house.

Given that kind of poverty, is it really some kind of mystery why the holy people leave the reservation and start charging people who actually have money for ceremonies?

The tribes who have a support system set up for their holy people don't seem to have a problem with their holy people abandoning the reservation for greener pastures. So whose fault is it that there are medicine men for hire?

Historian · 11-01-2008, 09:48 AM

Some more "interesting" websites.

SPIRITUAL MEDICINE

Path Of The Feather

Information about Dreaming Shaman

The Mesa Creative Arts Center Medicine Wheel

Rainbow Eagle: Seventh Fire Peace Shield Teacher

Wind Spirit Teaching

Event Description

My Discovery Path - Becoming I Am SPIRITGuides

annie_griffin · 12-03-2008, 11:59 PM

Did it ever occur to anyone that people ask about a medicine person because they are in actual need of help and by not helping that person other people are getting hurt. Traditional people.
I had the honor of meeting a traditional medicine person
and the honor of meeting a young man who would have become a spiritual leader to his people.
I'd like to know when exactly it became more important to pick people apart than to take them at their word.
What good are all your words.

Kaina1128 · 12-04-2008, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by annie_griffin

Did it ever occur to anyone that people ask about a medicine person because they are in actual need of help and by not helping that person other people are getting hurt. Traditional people.
I had the honor of meeting a traditional medicine person
and the honor of meeting a young man who would have become a spiritual leader to his people.
I'd like to know when exactly it became more important to pick people apart than to take them at their word.
What good are all your words.

The good of our words is the preservation of our culture and the protection against con artists and the mis-use/mis-understanding of medicine. Not a hard concept to grasp.

10-03-2008, 01:36 PM	#65 (permalink)
Coyot_In_The_House uhvdlv Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 3,980	As the tipi turnz! ...

10-09-2008, 12:20 PM	#66 (permalink)
blueskysmom Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 54	exposing fake medicine people Could it be we are talking about a different Sun Bear? I had a girl in my class in boarding school whose last name was Sun Bear and she was Lakota. I guess I kind of want to believe that Winona LaDuke's relative is not what we think he was.

10-09-2008, 01:09 PM	#68 (permalink)
blueskysmom Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 54	exposing fake medicine people Thanks Historian. I guess I had to have that confirmed for sure. I'm not too concerned about all the plastic medicine people (new agers) running around (non natives) cause they will get their due. I am worried about our indian people who are into spirituality for the money. Our belief is that even their innocent relatives will get hurt. If they were true Natives at heart and know the philosophy of the Red Road then they wouldn't be doing such terrible things. Innocent people are affected. What goes around comes around.

11-01-2008, 09:48 AM	#70 (permalink)
Historian Experienced Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Earth Posts: 1,064	Some more "interesting" websites. SPIRITUAL MEDICINE Path Of The Feather Information about Dreaming Shaman The Mesa Creative Arts Center Medicine Wheel Rainbow Eagle: Seventh Fire Peace Shield Teacher Wind Spirit Teaching Event Description My Discovery Path - Becoming I Am SPIRITGuides __________________ "Be good, be kind, help each other." "Respect the ground, respect the drum, respect each other." --Abe Conklin, Ponca/Osage (1926-1995)

12-03-2008, 11:59 PM	#71 (permalink)
annie_griffin Junior Dancer Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: new jersey Posts: 242	What good are all your words Did it ever occur to anyone that people ask about a medicine person because they are in actual need of help and by not helping that person other people are getting hurt. Traditional people. I had the honor of meeting a traditional medicine person and the honor of meeting a young man who would have become a spiritual leader to his people. I'd like to know when exactly it became more important to pick people apart than to take them at their word. What good are all your words.

07-25-2008, 02:48 PM	#62 (permalink)
New2itall Halito! Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Arkansas Posts: 658	Given enough time and enough lies, real Native people and their ways will come to fail to fulfill dominant culture fantasy and thus satisfy their standards of authenticity. Ultimately, the performances of those practicing their fraudulent and stolen versions of Native lifeways come to be regarded as "real". The conquerer takes up our skin and supplants us. And once the invaders become the Natives, the Indian problem is "solved". Very well worded!

10-22-2008, 06:20 PM	#69 (permalink)
badgermademedoit Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 11	A lot of medicine men, if it weren't for government housing, wouldn't have a roof over their heads. A lot of tribes don't take care of their holy people, they leave them to hold their own. In one case, the medicine man had worked off reservation in a job that provided him with a small retirement pension, or he would have had no money coming in. People seem to think that the government just hands money to Indian people to squander. The truth is that while the BIA had control of individual properties allotted to tribal members the BIA rented it out to white farmers and ranchers at $20 per year per 1000 acres. Since most tribal members had less than 1000 acres, that wasn't much of an annual income. One woman I know received a check for 33 cents back when a pack of cigarettes cost 30 cents plus 3 cents tax in the town where she was living. She was flat broke and needed smokes, so she cashed the check and got a pack of cigarettes, for her share of a year's rental agreement. The medicine man with the small pension lived on commodities, as did his family. He would mix maple flavoring with commodities corn syrup and use that on his pancakes made from commodities. Having a sandwich made with store bought balogney and store bought bread was a luxury. Instead, his wife made bread from commodities flour or they wouldn't have had bread in the house. Given that kind of poverty, is it really some kind of mystery why the holy people leave the reservation and start charging people who actually have money for ceremonies? The tribes who have a support system set up for their holy people don't seem to have a problem with their holy people abandoning the reservation for greener pastures. So whose fault is it that there are medicine men for hire?