History 101

L S P · 10-28-2005, 08:35 PM

COLUMBUS, Christopher,

in Italian Cristoforo Colombo, in Spanish Cristóbal Colón (1451–1506), Italian-Spanish navigator

FOUND AMERICAN IN 1492

QUESTION FOR THE CLASS.
WHO WAS THE CREW MEMBERS ON THE SHIPS
AND WHAT WAS THE NAME OF THE SHIP.

kiowakat · 10-29-2005, 02:54 PM

dang gawwww well the Mayflower was one of the ships. I think there was three and one of the crew members were (dang reaching in the back of brain thanks to the catholic teachers) Miles Standish spelling is not right but thanks for letting me excersize my mind LMAO GOT DANG!! anyways why ask a bunch of Native them questions ...gawwwww if you haven't noticed we don't even celebrate that historical event!!!lol

Dakota Wica'hpi Ina · 10-29-2005, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L S P

COLUMBUS, Christopher,

in Italian Cristoforo Colombo, in Spanish Cristóbal Colón (1451–1506), Italian-Spanish navigator

FOUND AMERICAN IN 1492

How did he "find" it?? Weren't we already here?? Who gives dang about that murdering sob NEways?

**Joe's Dad** · 10-30-2005, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L S P

COLUMBUS, Christopher,

in Italian Cristoforo Colombo, in Spanish Cristóbal Colón (1451–1506), Italian-Spanish navigator

FOUND AMERICAN IN 1492

QUESTION FOR THE CLASS.
WHO WAS THE CREW MEMBERS ON THE SHIPS
AND WHAT WAS THE NAME OF THE SHIP.

The rest of those european asssholes

Blue Poet · 10-30-2005, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiowakat

dang gawwww well the Mayflower was one of the ships. I think there was three and one of the crew members were (dang reaching in the back of brain thanks to the catholic teachers) Miles Standish spelling is not right but thanks for letting me excersize my mind LMAO GOT DANG!! anyways why ask a bunch of Native them questions ...gawwwww if you haven't noticed we don't even celebrate that historical event!!!lol

Hey Kat! you are late on this. The Mayflower was English, not Spanish/Italian/Portugese and came after the Nina, Pinta and Santa Maria. Funny thing is, Columbus actually landed in the Bahamas ('the New World') on October 12, not 'mainland' America.

And, actually, you got the 'Miles Standish' part right!

Blue Poet · 10-30-2005, 12:23 PM

Trevelyan, dean of modern historians, says that if we are to proclaim history, we must present proofs. Let us proceed to our proofs. We go back in time to the year 1492. Columbus, persuaded by some erratic trigonometry and some terrible calculus that China was to be found somewhere relatively near to the west of Spain and close enough to be visited by the frail craft of the time, talked Queen Isabella into hocking her jewels, as the legend goes, to outfit three small ships for an expedition to Cathay, a land of untold riches, according to Marco Polo.

After 40 sailing days and 40 nights, Columbus bumped into the island of Hispaniola, half of which is now the Dominican Republic, the other half being Haiti. And, based upon what Marco Polo had written, Columbus was puzzled. Not a chop suey joint in sight. No Won Ton soup. No Dim Sum joints. No firecrackers. No lovely Mandarin ladies in finely embroidered silk garments. No delegation eager to get a mah jong game going. No laundries.

Columbus might have been puzzled, but he was sure as hell not dissuaded. He was in China and he went back to Spain and so advised the few who had paid any attention to his claims and to his voyage. Eventually, as we know, he was clapped in jail. We do not know why. Isabella was not pleased, apparently.

Now, let us go further back into the past towards the end of the Tenth Century. No one disputes that Norwegian Vikings were living on the west coast of Greenland then; that there were many settlements; that the land was ruled by a red-headed Viking gentleman who was named, appropriately, Eric the Red. Eric had a son; a rash, belligerent young fellow named Leif who did not get along with his dad and was sick and tired of the terrible climate in Greenland. Leif had a buddy named Lars Almvig. Lars was a great teller of tales. These were called ''sagas'' in the Norse tradition. Everyone recited sagas from memory because few could read and write. One tantalizing tale, cast in the form of a saga, spoke of a land far to the west that had been seen through a mist by a Viking band that had been badly blown off-course.

Egged on by Lars Almvig and anxious to get out of the shadow of the old man, Leif organized a voyage, borrowed a ''Long Ship'' and headed west on a fine summer day in about 990 A.D. We know this because it is proclaimed in many of the Norse sagas of the time. These sagas survive. They have been compiled by a thoughtful anthropologist by the name of Snorri Sturleson in a book called ''Prose Edda.'' They are also found scattered throughout the literature of the Vikings.

Now, let us look to the geography in question. Get out your Mercator Projection, find the scale, cut a measured length of string, and lay out some lines. Find Narsalik, Greenland at just about 60 degrees North Latitude and about 50 degrees West Longitude. Narsalik was then the capital of Greenland and had the best harbor. Note that the small circle distance from Narsalik to any point on the coast of Labrador is about 500 miles. Labrador is part of North America. Note the direction of the Labrador current which is southerly in those latitudes. Note that Viking long-boats under sail were good for 6 knots an hour in an average breeze. Add the velocity of the Labrador current which is about 3 knots an hour and is southerly in direction. Confidence factor by, say, two and you will derive probable sailing time from Narsalik to the coast of Labrador of about 110 hours or four and a half days. Would that have been hard sailing for Leif Erickson? That's about the time that it takes inept brothers-in-law in their leaky boat to make it to Catalina, when, hopefully, you are not aboard. Leif, incidentally, went ashore on Labrador and named it ''Markland',' Land of the Flat Stones.

We are doing the map work to determine whether or not Leif's voyage was feasible. Feasibility is an important issue in casting the likelihood of occurrences, as all lawyers know, or should know. Now, let's go down the coast of Labrador, hugging the shoreline, for about 400 more miles and perhaps four days. We arrive at the Gulf of the St. Lawrence River, with the huge and bountiful island of Newfoundland just to the south. Let's go another 300 miles or so and we come to Nova Scotia and the Grand Banks. About 300 miles to the south is Boston, which, of course wasn't there in the Tenth Century.

Recall that the Vikings sailed the North Atlantic just as easily as the Phoenicians sailed the Mediterranean and that the area from the coast of Norway, up across Iceland and on over to Greenland, a vast distance, was easily traversed by those hard Norseman in their superbly designed and constructed ships.

So, we know now that the voyages of Leif Erickson were entirely feasible and that the distances involved were not extreme and that reaching any point on the North American continent north of Boston was an easy sail and probably a lot of fun if attempted in the summer time when the North Atlantic is as still as a mill-pond. (Cf. Voyage of Ron Swearinger aboard the troopship U.S.S. General Mann, August, 1953; Memoirs of Ron Swearinger, unpublished as yet).

This is BP. I'll put my money on the Vikings as the first 'Whites' to stumble upon the 'New World'. The closest Columbus came was Cuba...Wow, don't get Castro started...

Stone wolf · 10-30-2005, 06:46 PM

I think the historians and mainstream media, want most people (insert anglo paper buyers) to think that a Christopher Columbus found America (insert never lost), due to he seems like such a nice boy compaired to those nasty Vikings. The media seems to love a square bob square pants guy, and '***'u'me's than all others are savages or scary. The need for a pastuerized and sugared history has shaped our non-correct history books. Most government institutions prey on this need also. This is sad.

**billyjoejimbob** · 10-31-2005, 02:02 AM

Name: Santa Maria
Category: Nao
Sails: three masted, square rigged
Length: approx 85 ft.
Cargo Tons: approx. 100 tons
Captain: Christopher Columbus
Crew: approx 40

Fate: The Admiral’s flagship. She ran aground on Christmas Eve 1492 off the coast of Haiti. Her timbers were used to build Fort Navidad. Columbus left part of his crew at the fort with instructions to start a settlement. When he returned the following year, his men were all dead.

Leave it up to a white guy to know this! (and Im Italian)

Zotigh · 11-02-2005, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L S P

COLUMBUS, Christopher...FOUND AMERICAN IN 1492...

Did he? hehe

Much like if I 'find' a quarter in the parking lot, and then act like the quarter didn't even exist until I found it. lol

What about the folks that were watching from the shores of Guanahani when Chris fumbled ashore? Did they not exist until he graced their island with his presence? How does he get to 'discover' this continent when there were folks already here? (And, for those rightfully saying, "But the Vikings 'discovered' it first!!". Yeppers..but, the same applies...the Vikings also found folks already here. How can you 'discover' something that is already 'discovered'?) Or, is it only 'discovered' if white folks are involved in the process?

"America" was not even named so until about 10 years AFTER Christopher's 'discovery' in 1492.

Amerigo Vespucci, who was an agent for the Medici family's interests in Europe (and, even the ships 'ole Chris used), made voyages in 1499 to the "new world" and determined that it was NOT, in fact, the Indies (Asia), as believed by Chris (et al) at the time...doh!...but rather, a whole new continent. Radical!

After taking a decade to figure that one out, they named this continent after Amerigo... "America".

I just 'discovered' this thread. Does this mean that no one else has posted here before me? :P

Yep..that's how silly "discovered America" sounds.

CHEROSAGE · 11-02-2005, 01:35 AM

Wasn't ol Chris part Portuguese/part Italian? I also think that ol Chris and the Spaniards took a case of Clap with them back to Spain. They were the carriers of STDs. What a curse.

Zotigh · 11-02-2005, 02:17 AM

In a related topic...

Those of you embracing the, "En Dios" fallacy...please stop. It's silly.

"En Dios" (In God) is NOT why we are called "Indians". Chris and his folks did not come here to honour us and admire our society. They came to kill and take. And, they did so.

They were looking for the "Indies" (the East Indies.) And, they thought they had found them. That is what 'ole Chris sold to the royalty of Europe whom financed his venture. They were looking for a shorter route to Asia for trade. Goods coming from Asia were actually pretty cheap in market, but along the way paying all the tariffs to each grafter along the way made stuff very expensive once it arrived to the markets in Europe. Folks needed a shorter route...or, rather...a less grafted route (hehe) to the goods of the Indies. That is what Chris believed he could find. That is what he promised to the royalty so that they would finance his venture, that he could find a shorter way to the spices and riches for trade in Asia, rather than the land route through hostile territories.

"En Dios". PLUUEEZE! The LAST thing the Europeans thought of us was in any way 'Godly'.

"Indios" is 'Indians'. Meaning Indians. From the Indies. They thought they had found the Indies.

"En Dios"? "In God". C'mon, folks....most of us worshiped the Sun and weather spirits. Unless 'ole Chris all the sudden became pagan, he'd hardly admire what he'd consider to be pagans.

And, btw....our english word "IN" is "en" in both Spanish and Latin. If they had meant we were "In God", we would be "EnDios", not "Indios". It's not hieroglyphic's...there is no doubt amongst any linquists as to what they meant by "Indios". They thought they had found the Indies.

k...::turns down the 'rant' button::

Darn...that one got away from me.

Zotigh · 11-02-2005, 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L S P

QUESTION FOR THE CLASS.
WHO WAS THE CREW MEMBERS ON THE SHIPS
AND WHAT WAS THE NAME OF THE SHIP.

Oh, yeah....Here's what I found on a Google search for "Santa Maria crew".

Do I win?

Crew of the Santa Maria:
Cristobal Colon (Christopher Columbus), captain-general
Juan de la Cosa, owner and master
Diego de Arana, master-at-arms
Pedro de Gutierrez, royal steward
Rodrigo de Escobedo, secretary of the fleet
Rodrigo Sanchez, comptroller
Diego de Salcedo, servant of Columbus
Luis de Torres, interpreter
Rodrigo de Jerez
Alonso Chocero
Alonso Clavijo
Andres de Yruenes
Antonia de Cuellar, carpenter
Bartolome Biues
Bartolome de Torres
Bartolome Garcia, boatswain
Chachu, boatswain
Cristobal Caro, goldsmith
Diego Bermudez
Diego Perez, painter
Domingo de Lequeitio
Domingo Vizcaino, cooper
Gonzalo Franco
Jacomel Rico
Juan, servant
Juan de Jerez
Juan de la Placa
Juan Martines de Acoque
Juan de Medina
Juan de Moguer
Juan Ruiz de la Pena
Juan Sanchez, physician
Lope, joiner
Maestre Juan
Marin de Urtubia
Pedro de Terreros, cabin boy
Pero Nino, pilot
Pedro Yzquierdo
Pedro de Lepe
Rodrigo Gallego, servant
Crew of the Pinta:
Martin Alonso Pinzon, captain
Francisco Martin Pinzon, master
Cristobal Garcia Xalmiento, pilot
Cristobal Quintero, ship's owner
Francisco Garcia Vallejo
Garcia Hernandez, steward
Gomez Rascon
Juan Bermudez
Juan Quintero
Juan Rodriquez Bermejo
Pedro de Arcos
Alonso de Palos
Alvaro Perez
Anton Calabres
Bernal, servant
Diego Martin Pinzon
Fernando Mendes
Francisco Mendes
Gil Perez
Juan Quadrado
Juan Reynal
Juan Verde de Triana
Juan Vecano
Maestre Diego, surgeon
Pedro Tegero
Sancho de Rama
Crew of the Niña:
Vincente Yanez Pinzon, captain
Juan Nino, owner and master
Francisco Nino
Bartolome Roldan, apprentice pilot
Alonso de Morales, carpenter
Andres de Huelva
Bartolome Garcia, boatswain
Diego Lorenzo
Fernando de Triana
Garcia Alonso
Juan Arias, cabin boy
Juan Arraes
Juan Romero
Maestre Alonso, phyiscian
Miguel de Soria, servant
Pedro de Soria
Pero Arraes
Pero Sanches
Rodrigo Monge
Sancho Ruiz, pilot

Blue Poet · 11-02-2005, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHEROSAGE

Wasn't ol Chris part Portuguese/part Italian? I also think that ol Chris and the Spaniards took a case of Clap with them back to Spain. They were the carriers of STDs. What a curse.

I rather think the 'clap', just like the 'pox' was brought by the Europeans TO the 'new worlds', not vice versa.

10-28-2005, 08:35 PM	#1 (permalink)
L S P Mental Traveler Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: ENGLEWOOD/ HACKENSACK/ NEW JERSEY Posts: 33	History 101 COLUMBUS, Christopher, in Italian Cristoforo Colombo, in Spanish Cristóbal Colón (1451–1506), Italian-Spanish navigator FOUND AMERICAN IN 1492 QUESTION FOR THE CLASS. WHO WAS THE CREW MEMBERS ON THE SHIPS AND WHAT WAS THE NAME OF THE SHIP. __________________ www.skirmishrecords.com www.soundclick.com/crescedobeats THE DIGITAL AGE SEND PAYMENT THIS WAY

10-30-2005, 12:23 PM	#6 (permalink)
Blue Poet Junior Dancer Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 146	From the pen of Ronald Swearinger... Trevelyan, dean of modern historians, says that if we are to proclaim history, we must present proofs. Let us proceed to our proofs. We go back in time to the year 1492. Columbus, persuaded by some erratic trigonometry and some terrible calculus that China was to be found somewhere relatively near to the west of Spain and close enough to be visited by the frail craft of the time, talked Queen Isabella into hocking her jewels, as the legend goes, to outfit three small ships for an expedition to Cathay, a land of untold riches, according to Marco Polo. After 40 sailing days and 40 nights, Columbus bumped into the island of Hispaniola, half of which is now the Dominican Republic, the other half being Haiti. And, based upon what Marco Polo had written, Columbus was puzzled. Not a chop suey joint in sight. No Won Ton soup. No Dim Sum joints. No firecrackers. No lovely Mandarin ladies in finely embroidered silk garments. No delegation eager to get a mah jong game going. No laundries. Columbus might have been puzzled, but he was sure as hell not dissuaded. He was in China and he went back to Spain and so advised the few who had paid any attention to his claims and to his voyage. Eventually, as we know, he was clapped in jail. We do not know why. Isabella was not pleased, apparently. Now, let us go further back into the past towards the end of the Tenth Century. No one disputes that Norwegian Vikings were living on the west coast of Greenland then; that there were many settlements; that the land was ruled by a red-headed Viking gentleman who was named, appropriately, Eric the Red. Eric had a son; a rash, belligerent young fellow named Leif who did not get along with his dad and was sick and tired of the terrible climate in Greenland. Leif had a buddy named Lars Almvig. Lars was a great teller of tales. These were called ''sagas'' in the Norse tradition. Everyone recited sagas from memory because few could read and write. One tantalizing tale, cast in the form of a saga, spoke of a land far to the west that had been seen through a mist by a Viking band that had been badly blown off-course. Egged on by Lars Almvig and anxious to get out of the shadow of the old man, Leif organized a voyage, borrowed a ''Long Ship'' and headed west on a fine summer day in about 990 A.D. We know this because it is proclaimed in many of the Norse sagas of the time. These sagas survive. They have been compiled by a thoughtful anthropologist by the name of Snorri Sturleson in a book called ''Prose Edda.'' They are also found scattered throughout the literature of the Vikings. Now, let us look to the geography in question. Get out your Mercator Projection, find the scale, cut a measured length of string, and lay out some lines. Find Narsalik, Greenland at just about 60 degrees North Latitude and about 50 degrees West Longitude. Narsalik was then the capital of Greenland and had the best harbor. Note that the small circle distance from Narsalik to any point on the coast of Labrador is about 500 miles. Labrador is part of North America. Note the direction of the Labrador current which is southerly in those latitudes. Note that Viking long-boats under sail were good for 6 knots an hour in an average breeze. Add the velocity of the Labrador current which is about 3 knots an hour and is southerly in direction. Confidence factor by, say, two and you will derive probable sailing time from Narsalik to the coast of Labrador of about 110 hours or four and a half days. Would that have been hard sailing for Leif Erickson? That's about the time that it takes inept brothers-in-law in their leaky boat to make it to Catalina, when, hopefully, you are not aboard. Leif, incidentally, went ashore on Labrador and named it ''Markland',' Land of the Flat Stones. We are doing the map work to determine whether or not Leif's voyage was feasible. Feasibility is an important issue in casting the likelihood of occurrences, as all lawyers know, or should know. Now, let's go down the coast of Labrador, hugging the shoreline, for about 400 more miles and perhaps four days. We arrive at the Gulf of the St. Lawrence River, with the huge and bountiful island of Newfoundland just to the south. Let's go another 300 miles or so and we come to Nova Scotia and the Grand Banks. About 300 miles to the south is Boston, which, of course wasn't there in the Tenth Century. Recall that the Vikings sailed the North Atlantic just as easily as the Phoenicians sailed the Mediterranean and that the area from the coast of Norway, up across Iceland and on over to Greenland, a vast distance, was easily traversed by those hard Norseman in their superbly designed and constructed ships. So, we know now that the voyages of Leif Erickson were entirely feasible and that the distances involved were not extreme and that reaching any point on the North American continent north of Boston was an easy sail and probably a lot of fun if attempted in the summer time when the North Atlantic is as still as a mill-pond. (Cf. Voyage of Ron Swearinger aboard the troopship U.S.S. General Mann, August, 1953; Memoirs of Ron Swearinger, unpublished as yet). This is BP. I'll put my money on the Vikings as the first 'Whites' to stumble upon the 'New World'. The closest Columbus came was Cuba...Wow, don't get Castro started...

10-30-2005, 06:46 PM	#7 (permalink)
Stone wolf "Keeper of the Trails" Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 11	Vikings Vs Columbus? I think the historians and mainstream media, want most people (insert anglo paper buyers) to think that a Christopher Columbus found America (insert never lost), due to he seems like such a nice boy compaired to those nasty Vikings. The media seems to love a square bob square pants guy, and '***'u'me's than all others are savages or scary. The need for a pastuerized and sugared history has shaped our non-correct history books. Most government institutions prey on this need also. This is sad.

11-02-2005, 01:35 AM	#10 (permalink)
CHEROSAGE Pow Wow Committee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: , mo Posts: 1,342	Wasn't ol Chris part Portuguese/part Italian? I also think that ol Chris and the Spaniards took a case of Clap with them back to Spain. They were the carriers of STDs. What a curse. __________________ BOB

11-02-2005, 02:17 AM	#11 (permalink)
Zotigh USMC Join Date: May 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 289	In a related topic... Those of you embracing the, "En Dios" fallacy...please stop. It's silly. "En Dios" (In God) is NOT why we are called "Indians". Chris and his folks did not come here to honour us and admire our society. They came to kill and take. And, they did so. They were looking for the "Indies" (the East Indies.) And, they thought they had found them. That is what 'ole Chris sold to the royalty of Europe whom financed his venture. They were looking for a shorter route to Asia for trade. Goods coming from Asia were actually pretty cheap in market, but along the way paying all the tariffs to each grafter along the way made stuff very expensive once it arrived to the markets in Europe. Folks needed a shorter route...or, rather...a less grafted route (hehe) to the goods of the Indies. That is what Chris believed he could find. That is what he promised to the royalty so that they would finance his venture, that he could find a shorter way to the spices and riches for trade in Asia, rather than the land route through hostile territories. "En Dios". PLUUEEZE! The LAST thing the Europeans thought of us was in any way 'Godly'. "Indios" is 'Indians'. Meaning Indians. From the Indies. They thought they had found the Indies. "En Dios"? "In God". C'mon, folks....most of us worshiped the Sun and weather spirits. Unless 'ole Chris all the sudden became pagan, he'd hardly admire what he'd consider to be pagans. And, btw....our english word "IN" is "en" in both Spanish and Latin. If they had meant we were "In God", we would be "EnDios", not "Indios". It's not hieroglyphic's...there is no doubt amongst any linquists as to what they meant by "Indios". They thought they had found the Indies. k...::turns down the 'rant' button:: Darn...that one got away from me. __________________ Scott Zotigh Kiowa Black Leggings Kiowa Gourd Clan Kiowa Tiah Piah Kiowa Marine Veterans American Indian Veterans Last edited by Zotigh; 11-02-2005 at 02:24 AM.

10-29-2005, 02:54 PM	#2 (permalink)
kiowakat Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: St.Louis Posts: 1,243	dang gawwww well the Mayflower was one of the ships. I think there was three and one of the crew members were (dang reaching in the back of brain thanks to the catholic teachers) Miles Standish spelling is not right but thanks for letting me excersize my mind LMAO GOT DANG!! anyways why ask a bunch of Native them questions ...gawwwww if you haven't noticed we don't even celebrate that historical event!!!lol

10-31-2005, 02:02 AM	#8 (permalink)
billyjoejimbob Fat Singer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: white guy land Posts: 1,526	Name: Santa Maria Category: Nao Sails: three masted, square rigged Length: approx 85 ft. Cargo Tons: approx. 100 tons Captain: Christopher Columbus Crew: approx 40 Fate: The Admiral’s flagship. She ran aground on Christmas Eve 1492 off the coast of Haiti. Her timbers were used to build Fort Navidad. Columbus left part of his crew at the fort with instructions to start a settlement. When he returned the following year, his men were all dead. Leave it up to a white guy to know this! (and Im Italian)