Ndn trying to educate herself needs advice.

Menomineegirl · 02-08-2005, 07:22 PM

I am currently a junior in college in Tennessee. Not being from The South (born and raised in Wisconsin) I am wondering if the feelings of alienation and discrimination that I am experiencing in school are common to all ndns in college or is a purely a Southern thing. I have learned that something like only 2% of ndns ever graduate from college. Surely this is not because we are not intellectually able. I am thinking that the atmosphere of white colleges is not conducinve with our culture. I sit in class and I look around and I see no faces like my own. I am taught things (an expected to believe) that directly conflict with traditional teachings. I guess what I am asking is how do I cope with these obstacles and stick it out until I graduate? I would love to hear how other ndns before me have managed to graduate without going crazy. I am simply not used to the lack of acnkowledgement of my culture.

geronimo · 02-08-2005, 09:36 PM

(sometimes) you see 2 things - 1) you're the token indian and they hang on your every word OR 2) they're non-accepting and/or judgmental of who you are

as a college student i've experienced this - but you have a unique opportunity in that you can teach your campus about your beautiful culture and the chance to offer a different perspective on things - seeing as how universities tend to be "liberal", i'm surprised @ your classroom/campus experience

i don't know if it's necessarily a southern thing (where do you attend?) or just ignorance- people are usually scared of things that are different, and more than that, some people have never known an indian their entire life so some don't know how they should approach us- i think, unconsciously, it's fueled by all the misconceptions/stereotypes perpetuated in american history - yes, i'm indian, but, i'm a regular person just like everyone else and in many ways just like you - sometimes i think it takes a while for people to grasp that

also, search out your campus/community for other ndns- speaking from personal experience, that support group is very helpful- even ya'll will have differences that will be important to share-
but, don't limit yourself to just ndn people - they're so many people on campus to forge friendships/bonds with if you put yourself out there and get involved socially....(clubs, committees, dorm councils)

well, sorry i've rambled on.......you sound like you really have a handle on the situation and the maturity and dedication to see your college career through - stick it out - you'll be SO glad you did - and you'll have a better future ahead of you - GOOD LUCK!!! i love to see our ndn people reach their full POTENTIAL!!!!!

Blackbear · 02-08-2005, 11:01 PM

Hon.. from how I've heard it.. in Tennesee you will experience one of the three,
1) other ndns from other states relocated there for work or whatever
2) people who want to be ndns
3) people who hate ndns..

You are in the South, you're gonna feel it. Now take a big deep breath, maybe have a glass of water and ignore the crap out of those that oppose you and stick to your studies!
Yes you are going to be taught things that directly conflict with traditional teachings and it's up to you to learn it, not live it. Culturally and religiously, alot of folks from all walks of life have to learn these things as well... and most just deal. Or you could always speak up about it. But I've found it easier to roll my eyes, take note and just continue believing what I believe and live how I live.

You see no other faces like your own? No big surprise there.. how bout looking for friendly faces instead? Just because they are non native does'nt mean they can't be a good friend to you while you are there. A shoulder to cry on when you get homesick, a study partner who might be able to help you over some of the more confusing things in college.... just someone to talk to. Who knows... you may meet that one person who ends up in the position that can help native americans someday and your friendship will be something that person remembers.... who knows!

I know what you mean by the lack of acknowledgement of your culture.. but in some ways that's a blessing. It seems everytime I am somewhere there is little to no native people in the community, suddenly when the non natives find out, I'm playing 200 questions with them, and they are the kind that make you want to run and hide cause they are so uninformed.... ie; Do they have chiefs and shaman in your tribe? Do you guys still where buckskin? Do you live in a Teepee? That will drive you more nuts than being one more face in a crowd , trust me.

OH and one more thing, I think Geronimo suggested it already but check and see if there is an indigenous club at your college. Most universities do. And there is one or two native american indian centers in Tennessee as well.

**WocusWoman** · 02-09-2005, 01:12 AM

Heck I experienced racism in the 80's while attending Haskell in Lawrence, Kansas. My freshman year; we were sort of warned about going off the campus, to be careful and weary of our surroundings. On top of this; the different groups there tended to stick with there own. Racism exists everywhere; even though it's much less here in Alaska it still exists, for example: the University of Ak-Fairbanks recruits alot of white kids out of Canada to play hockey, well guess what for the most part they do not like natives.

WhoMe · 02-09-2005, 02:12 PM

Here's a new slant to this question...

The first time I went to college, I worried about how I was perceived by others. I worried how my Indianness factored into my university experience. I made sure I was accepted by my peers by putting a lot of time into social activities. Consequently, I flunked out of school.

Years later, I reentered college.

This time I didn't care about how others percieved me. I was focused on graduating and nothing else. I had tunnel vision on succeeding through improved studying habits, focus groups, in achieving my college degree.

With this new attitude, I became one of the 2% you mentioned.

wyo_rose · 02-09-2005, 02:28 PM

I think a LOT of new NDN college students end up dropping out because of that. I felt totally alienated in a sea of rednecks and I was only 100 miles away from home in my own state. There was a Crow girl there, but we didn't get to know each other and she dropped out long before I did.

I actually completed a semester and 1/2, but when I went home for spring break they couldn't drag me out from under the bed to go back. True story.

But going back again for a second try (or third

), you really get a new perspective. But having some varied kinds of support is CRITICAL. Even just having a board like this to vent will help.

Good luck and hang in there!

Coyot_In_The_House · 02-09-2005, 02:38 PM

I agree with the "Cherokee Prince" a.k.a. Who Me.....

See you should be in College for the Reason not the Season. It's easy to get caught up in the superficial stuff....I did the same thing. If you can manage your time and remain focussed everything else will fall in line. I did a whole lot of writing in school as well as travelling.....Take advantage of that. I found running to be a big part of my Collegiate Life.....We all have certain things we enjoy doing, in school you can enhance it and build your life around it. Skins usually pop up just about everywhere....Hopefully one or two will saunter across your path.....hang in there though cause it's worth it, not just for the "Edjamacation" but the Experience.....

**badmaninc** · 02-12-2005, 02:14 AM

When I went to university in the mid 80's there were only 35-40 ndns in a university population of over 10,000. Its weird but we didn't really know each other but we ended up gravitating towards one another after my first semester there. What really helped me was to concentrate on the school work too. I had a double disadvantage, I was from a small community where there was a population of 5-600 and moved to a city of 2.5 million. Only scary thing of hanging out with all of the ndns when there aren't that many it hurts worse when one of you drops out. I turned all that hatred around and said I wasn't going to give them the satisfaction of proving them right. I studied really hard all of the time and only came home at Christmas and Easter. Missed a lot but realized that in the end I was trying to achieve something very few of us ever accomplished. That's also a scary thought. Mostly I tried to stay positive and I kept in touch with my culture by attending our winter ceremonies even in Vancouver. I wished I was into powwow back then cause that would have helped too. It always feels really good during and after I have sang a few songs. Makes me feel whole. Always keep in touch with your loved ones, I know that sounds trite but it is what helps keep you sane when the stress occurrs during the semester.

Blackbear · 02-12-2005, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WocusWoman

Heck I experienced racism in the 80's while attending Haskell in Lawrence, Kansas. My freshman year; we were sort of warned about going off the campus, to be careful and weary of our surroundings. On top of this; the different groups there tended to stick with there own.

Lawrence Kansas is a huge Skinhead hub! Nazi and straight edge alike.

canavajo · 02-13-2005, 11:45 AM

Not able to finish BA in Engineering, but another professor helped me to get my AS in Civil Engineering and get a Professional Engineering Stamp in six years of work experience which is the same as BA in Civil Engineering. Of course, it is a longer route but with a family of five and powwows to attend I am taking the longer route. I sit in the back of the class and at meetings I always have the wall to my back. Of course, all are anglos at meetings, someone asked why I sat with the wall at my back. I replied I don't like someone sneaking up on me. The person was honest and said he didn't like being snuck up on also. Now we both sit with the walls to our backs.

For class, I just showed up, turned in homework, took exams. Passed the classes and the professors would always be amazed at how I could catch up with assignements and pull a C (an easy C) in the class when I should have gotten an A. Had a few problems with being ndn but would always reply 'this is my good day.'

I am doing great!! And I love my job.! Just hang in there and always take PE.

Menomineegirl · 02-14-2005, 02:13 PM

Thanks for the advice everyone.

**WocusWoman** · 02-14-2005, 09:43 PM

You know what; we all go through with these experiences in our lives, at one time or another. Never give up Menomineegirl, keep on with your education, and be proud of who and what you are.

**LittleCricket** · 02-16-2005, 10:30 PM

Menomineegirl..I'm assuming you go to M.T.S.U...if so call there's the Native American Indian Assoc. in Nashville. also on the campus in March there's a powwow held @ the horse arena..you might try & send a PM to crabbyolebear, she was going to M.T.S.U. but I think she graduated last year and she hates being in Tn.The white folks in the South are different in alot of ways & most of those ways bite the big one.BB gave you some great advice (as her advice usually is ) did you here that sound?? It was me pulling my lips of BB's azz ~LOL~

wanders off to Red's mumbling something about.."if they aren't toothless , cousin-effin ,ignorant hillbillies that think we all live in tipis than they're uptight , non-dancing , non-singing Church of Christers that buy their turquoise @ Dillard's."

02-08-2005, 07:22 PM	#1 (permalink)
Menomineegirl U can like me or love me. Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Murfreesboro,TN(yuck) Posts: 19	Ndn trying to educate herself needs advice. I am currently a junior in college in Tennessee. Not being from The South (born and raised in Wisconsin) I am wondering if the feelings of alienation and discrimination that I am experiencing in school are common to all ndns in college or is a purely a Southern thing. I have learned that something like only 2% of ndns ever graduate from college. Surely this is not because we are not intellectually able. I am thinking that the atmosphere of white colleges is not conducinve with our culture. I sit in class and I look around and I see no faces like my own. I am taught things (an expected to believe) that directly conflict with traditional teachings. I guess what I am asking is how do I cope with these obstacles and stick it out until I graduate? I would love to hear how other ndns before me have managed to graduate without going crazy. I am simply not used to the lack of acnkowledgement of my culture.

02-08-2005, 09:36 PM	#2 (permalink)
geronimo Junior Dancer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Tarheel State Posts: 242	hope this helps (sometimes) you see 2 things - 1) you're the token indian and they hang on your every word OR 2) they're non-accepting and/or judgmental of who you are as a college student i've experienced this - but you have a unique opportunity in that you can teach your campus about your beautiful culture and the chance to offer a different perspective on things - seeing as how universities tend to be "liberal", i'm surprised @ your classroom/campus experience i don't know if it's necessarily a southern thing (where do you attend?) or just ignorance- people are usually scared of things that are different, and more than that, some people have never known an indian their entire life so some don't know how they should approach us- i think, unconsciously, it's fueled by all the misconceptions/stereotypes perpetuated in american history - yes, i'm indian, but, i'm a regular person just like everyone else and in many ways just like you - sometimes i think it takes a while for people to grasp that also, search out your campus/community for other ndns- speaking from personal experience, that support group is very helpful- even ya'll will have differences that will be important to share- but, don't limit yourself to just ndn people - they're so many people on campus to forge friendships/bonds with if you put yourself out there and get involved socially....(clubs, committees, dorm councils) well, sorry i've rambled on.......you sound like you really have a handle on the situation and the maturity and dedication to see your college career through - stick it out - you'll be SO glad you did - and you'll have a better future ahead of you - GOOD LUCK!!! i love to see our ndn people reach their full POTENTIAL!!!!! __________________ No one can make you feel inferior w/o your consent-Eleanor Roosevelt Last edited by geronimo; 02-08-2005 at 09:40 PM.

02-08-2005, 11:01 PM	#3 (permalink)
Blackbear Space Cowboy Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Alaska Posts: 9,622	Hon.. from how I've heard it.. in Tennesee you will experience one of the three, 1) other ndns from other states relocated there for work or whatever 2) people who want to be ndns 3) people who hate ndns.. You are in the South, you're gonna feel it. Now take a big deep breath, maybe have a glass of water and ignore the crap out of those that oppose you and stick to your studies! Yes you are going to be taught things that directly conflict with traditional teachings and it's up to you to learn it, not live it. Culturally and religiously, alot of folks from all walks of life have to learn these things as well... and most just deal. Or you could always speak up about it. But I've found it easier to roll my eyes, take note and just continue believing what I believe and live how I live. You see no other faces like your own? No big surprise there.. how bout looking for friendly faces instead? Just because they are non native does'nt mean they can't be a good friend to you while you are there. A shoulder to cry on when you get homesick, a study partner who might be able to help you over some of the more confusing things in college.... just someone to talk to. Who knows... you may meet that one person who ends up in the position that can help native americans someday and your friendship will be something that person remembers.... who knows! I know what you mean by the lack of acknowledgement of your culture.. but in some ways that's a blessing. It seems everytime I am somewhere there is little to no native people in the community, suddenly when the non natives find out, I'm playing 200 questions with them, and they are the kind that make you want to run and hide cause they are so uninformed.... ie; Do they have chiefs and shaman in your tribe? Do you guys still where buckskin? Do you live in a Teepee? That will drive you more nuts than being one more face in a crowd , trust me. OH and one more thing, I think Geronimo suggested it already but check and see if there is an indigenous club at your college. Most universities do. And there is one or two native american indian centers in Tennessee as well. __________________ Don't worry that it's not good enough for anyone else to hear... just sing, sing a song.

02-09-2005, 02:12 PM	#5 (permalink)
WhoMe PauWau Coordinator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Land of 370 Broken Treaties Posts: 5,560	Here's a new slant to this question... The first time I went to college, I worried about how I was perceived by others. I worried how my Indianness factored into my university experience. I made sure I was accepted by my peers by putting a lot of time into social activities. Consequently, I flunked out of school. Years later, I reentered college. This time I didn't care about how others percieved me. I was focused on graduating and nothing else. I had tunnel vision on succeeding through improved studying habits, focus groups, in achieving my college degree. With this new attitude, I became one of the 2% you mentioned. __________________ "Today, recognizing and respecting the origins of powwow aids in our Cultural Survival. If enough people break the rules because they are not satisfied...."We will have no culture." WhoMe

02-09-2005, 02:28 PM	#6 (permalink)
wyo_rose Teenah's Too Cool Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Fort Washakie Posts: 8,037 Blog Entries: 2	I think a LOT of new NDN college students end up dropping out because of that. I felt totally alienated in a sea of rednecks and I was only 100 miles away from home in my own state. There was a Crow girl there, but we didn't get to know each other and she dropped out long before I did. I actually completed a semester and 1/2, but when I went home for spring break they couldn't drag me out from under the bed to go back. True story. But going back again for a second try (or third), you really get a new perspective. But having some varied kinds of support is CRITICAL. Even just having a board like this to vent will help. Good luck and hang in there!

02-09-2005, 01:12 AM	#4 (permalink)
WocusWoman N8tiffUmatillaMAMA Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Interior Alaska Posts: 2,737	Heck I experienced racism in the 80's while attending Haskell in Lawrence, Kansas. My freshman year; we were sort of warned about going off the campus, to be careful and weary of our surroundings. On top of this; the different groups there tended to stick with there own. Racism exists everywhere; even though it's much less here in Alaska it still exists, for example: the University of Ak-Fairbanks recruits alot of white kids out of Canada to play hockey, well guess what for the most part they do not like natives.

02-09-2005, 02:38 PM	#7 (permalink)
Coyot_In_The_House uhvdlv Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 3,967	Another member of the 2% Ratio.... I agree with the "Cherokee Prince" a.k.a. Who Me..... See you should be in College for the Reason not the Season. It's easy to get caught up in the superficial stuff....I did the same thing. If you can manage your time and remain focussed everything else will fall in line. I did a whole lot of writing in school as well as travelling.....Take advantage of that. I found running to be a big part of my Collegiate Life.....We all have certain things we enjoy doing, in school you can enhance it and build your life around it. Skins usually pop up just about everywhere....Hopefully one or two will saunter across your path.....hang in there though cause it's worth it, not just for the "Edjamacation" but the Experience.....

02-12-2005, 02:14 AM	#8 (permalink)
badmaninc PowWows.com Addicts Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Saanich Tribes, B.C. Posts: 3,037	When I went to university in the mid 80's there were only 35-40 ndns in a university population of over 10,000. Its weird but we didn't really know each other but we ended up gravitating towards one another after my first semester there. What really helped me was to concentrate on the school work too. I had a double disadvantage, I was from a small community where there was a population of 5-600 and moved to a city of 2.5 million. Only scary thing of hanging out with all of the ndns when there aren't that many it hurts worse when one of you drops out. I turned all that hatred around and said I wasn't going to give them the satisfaction of proving them right. I studied really hard all of the time and only came home at Christmas and Easter. Missed a lot but realized that in the end I was trying to achieve something very few of us ever accomplished. That's also a scary thought. Mostly I tried to stay positive and I kept in touch with my culture by attending our winter ceremonies even in Vancouver. I wished I was into powwow back then cause that would have helped too. It always feels really good during and after I have sang a few songs. Makes me feel whole. Always keep in touch with your loved ones, I know that sounds trite but it is what helps keep you sane when the stress occurrs during the semester.

02-13-2005, 11:45 AM	#10 (permalink)
canavajo Native Illuzionz-My Biz Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: CA Posts: 125	Not able to finish BA in Engineering, but another professor helped me to get my AS in Civil Engineering and get a Professional Engineering Stamp in six years of work experience which is the same as BA in Civil Engineering. Of course, it is a longer route but with a family of five and powwows to attend I am taking the longer route. I sit in the back of the class and at meetings I always have the wall to my back. Of course, all are anglos at meetings, someone asked why I sat with the wall at my back. I replied I don't like someone sneaking up on me. The person was honest and said he didn't like being snuck up on also. Now we both sit with the walls to our backs. For class, I just showed up, turned in homework, took exams. Passed the classes and the professors would always be amazed at how I could catch up with assignements and pull a C (an easy C) in the class when I should have gotten an A. Had a few problems with being ndn but would always reply 'this is my good day.' I am doing great!! And I love my job.! Just hang in there and always take PE. __________________ *Navy Seabees!!* The only stupid question is the question that is not asked.

02-14-2005, 02:13 PM	#11 (permalink)
Menomineegirl U can like me or love me. Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Murfreesboro,TN(yuck) Posts: 19	Thanks for the advice everyone.

02-14-2005, 09:43 PM	#12 (permalink)
WocusWoman N8tiffUmatillaMAMA Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Interior Alaska Posts: 2,737	You know what; we all go through with these experiences in our lives, at one time or another. Never give up Menomineegirl, keep on with your education, and be proud of who and what you are.

02-16-2005, 10:30 PM	#13 (permalink)
LittleCricket PowWows.com Addicts Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: ~state of confusion~ Posts: 6,168	Menomineegirl..I'm assuming you go to M.T.S.U...if so call there's the Native American Indian Assoc. in Nashville. also on the campus in March there's a powwow held @ the horse arena..you might try & send a PM to crabbyolebear, she was going to M.T.S.U. but I think she graduated last year and she hates being in Tn.The white folks in the South are different in alot of ways & most of those ways bite the big one.BB gave you some great advice (as her advice usually is ) did you here that sound?? It was me pulling my lips of BB's azz ~LOL~ wanders off to Red's mumbling something about.."if they aren't toothless , cousin-effin ,ignorant hillbillies that think we all live in tipis than they're uptight , non-dancing , non-singing Church of Christers that buy their turquoise @ Dillard's." __________________ Life is a mystery to be lived not a problem to be solved Last edited by LittleCricket; 02-16-2005 at 10:33 PM.