middle of the sky

I was just watching this show called "America's Stoneage Explorers" on PBS. Its so historically racist, at least some scientists. One was trying to imply "we" were too dumb to make the clovis spearhead and that it must of come from these people, the "Salutrians" (sp?) from france or whateveh. We were also referred to as "nomadic mammoth murderers"...oh cripe.. if they still try to say we came from Asia or whereveh then shouldnt we start a land claim there also? :czyeyes: i know in my heart that we were always on turtle island and i wish these stupid geeks would stop their nazi propaganda.....holuh....well ya know what i mean...


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/stoneage/about.html

*-merk-*

we come from our mamas :D who come from our grammas who come from our great grammas who come from.... :42:

*Brown Eyed Gurl*

LOL...siiic.:D

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middle of the sky

...thats right eh.... and im sitting here listening to the tv and then they're talking about DNA...and then one of them scientists says something about the "OJIBWA".....im saying to myself...what the? dont drag us into this......i have to get my friend to lend me the tape he taped it.....lol..

*Brown Eyed Gurl*

[quote=middle of the sky if they still try to say we came from Asia or whereveh then shouldnt we start a land claim there also?[/COLOR]




I take it u dont like that version huh?..lol..i was taught that in school, one old hag of a teacher always mentioned it to me...so used to say wow im related to "asian" ppl(cept i used bad word back then lol):D

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middle of the sky

and please, no "earth, storks, cabbage patch, i was raised by wolves" answers...tho my dad did know a guy that was raised by wolves....colonah...where r u? the werewolves of london...a whooooo....omg..im getting tired again... :coocoo:

CHEROSAGE

I was taught that our people came from the sky and placed in the middle waters. They found some subhumans and civilized them. Quite simplified.

The Cherokees, I was told came from the earth, Cave or a volcano. Our people have been here since the beginning of time. The idea of being chinese just doesn't work with me.

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BOB

Kio-Manche

I have heard about that land bridge so many times. What, was it just a one-way land bridge? How do they know that NDNz didn't go over there and become Asians? Huh? How about that theory? Maybe we went over there and didn't like eating all that rice, so we came back to where we could get some meat!

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Kio-Manche
Oklahoma Proud!!!

Kiwehnzii

The scientist say that white people evolved from monkeys. I believe that.

Our teachers say we came from the earth. Our Creator made us. I believe that too.

Believe what you want. I'll believe what I want. Ahow.

Joe G

[quote=Kiwehnzii]The scientist say that white people evolved from monkeys. I believe that.

Why do you wish to defame monkeys in this manner?
They don't deserve this!
Sincerely,
Primate anti-defamation league!

OLChemist

GRRRRRR! I saw that too. I haven't been so peeved with PBS since their Secrets of the Dead episode about cannibalism in Chaco Canyon.

*** F5 tirade alert ***


X halotype mtDNA:

My understanding -- limited by being a chemist not a molecular biologist -- is that the European origin theory is contingent on the geographic distribution of the X halotype (family of alleles or genes) of mtDNA (mitachondrial -- female line -- DNA). However, as the program mentioned in an about 2 millisecond aside, this halotype has been found in Central Asia -- at least according to some researchers. The X halotype as seen in Central Asia lacks a certain mutation that is seen in European mtDNA but not seen in American mtDNA.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...gi?artid=55343

The three early waves and a fourth later wave migration pattern that the halotype distrubtions suggest, sounds very similar to some of the theories that come from linguistic studies.

Personally, I did find the assumption that a technical innovation had to come from Europe Eurocentric at best and more of the "Indians weren't really here first so we don't have to feel guilty about our treatment of Native people" at worst. I am still deeply dubious about the accuracy of the methodology of dating gene divergence. To this novice, outsider it seems to rely heavily on certain assumptions, tons of statistical models, and some still fairly new techniques. Looking back at the history of science there have been a lot of hot new techniques that make modern scientists cringe. Remember crainonomy (sp) and all those big Aryan skulls? Further, I wonder how extensive the mtDNA sampling among Native people really was. Particularly in light of concerns regarding the patenting of genes isolated in the Human Genome project and the largely negative response of many Native people to being sampled and studied yet again. Without adequate sampling and appropriate polymorphism rate information how reliable are these 20K dates?

Mammoth murdering:

The "mammoth murdering" comment came from an earlier assertion that the Clovis point had led to the extinction of large game animals in North America. An assertion I find interesting. In the numbers present in the centuries after contact, we never managed to hunt the bison to the edge of extinction; that distinction belongs to the Europeans. Are they suggesting that prior to contact there were a lot more of us? Gee, I thought that was anthropological heresy.... And what about that pesky end of the Ice Age thing? How were wooly mammoths faring in an increasingly arid and warm environment?

At least a couple of the archeologists suggested that the point might have been developed here. I've never understood the assumption that any group of "primitive" people are incapable of technological innovation. Aren't these the same people who say these folks are genetically identical to modern humans. You know big brains -- even those of us with smaller non-Aryan skulls. We seem to be able to invent a whole lot of stuff, all the time, in great quantities. Why not proto-Indians? Because they wear skins, and hunt and gather? It takes a damn lot of intelligence and technological competence to keep from starving to death. Those mammoths didn't just stand there waiting to be "murdered."


Stone Age French Michealangelos:

The "ancestors of the painter of the stone age Sistine chapel" comment sent me up the wall. Europeans are again the artists, while we were murdering mammoths. I've seen the reproductions of the Lascaux paintings -- all you are allowed to see nowadays. I don't see how they are more sophisticated than our rock art. Just a lot less weathered. But, then the European art establishment has long relegated Native arts to the area of decorative crafts, so I suppose I shouldn't be too surprised.


Evolution vs. creationism (ours, yours, theirs) and Siberian NDNs:

The assumptions of evolutionary biology precludes an American origin for man. So of course the land bridge has to be there. I did note the A, B, C, D came by hoofing it across the land bridge but X explored it's way here, taking a boat. Gee, where have we seen this before? Maybe X *did* come from Europe. j/k

In my experience, evolutionary molecular biologists are most anti-religious scientists in existence. I've seen one these "professionals" verbally attack a student in the classroom for having religious beliefs -- demonstrated by the students desire to become a medical missionary. I had one turn to me during a dinner party and ask: "How can an otherwise intelligent person like you believe in God?" There's a dinnertime conversation stopper. Orthodox evolutionary theory excludes *all* religious belief.

I think this open hostility to religious persons is part of the resistance to the teaching of evolution. It is one thing to encounter a concept in the classroom that is counter to personal belief -- like that doesn't happen for Native people 80 times a day. But it is another to attack the belief system of a young person. And too often covert and overt attacks on faith, no matter who's -- is part of the evolutionary curriculum content.


OK. I'll take a few deep breaths, quit my tirade and stop my cat from chewing on my employer's Cocoa programming book.

OLChemist

Kiwehnzii

YEAH! What he said!

I think.

BurBz

mel! LMAO...:Chatter...good one!!

haha

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I'm not mean, you're just a sissy! :Tongue