Mato Winyan

What can I say... this is an outrage!

If you read... these are white people doing this.

http://www.ravencircle.com/questions.html#offer


This is the link that tells about them...

http://www.ravencircle.com/about_us.htm

__________________








"We see it as a desecration not only of a mountain but of our way of life. This is a genocidal issue to us. If they kill this mountain, they kill our way of life." ~Debra White Plume

Riverwoman

Good lord, here we go again!

Riverwoman

Legitimate Indian spiritual leaders don’t have business cards calling themselves shamans, or have websites soliciting money for their "services". They don't conduct seminars, sweatlodges, or sun dances and charge hundreds or thousands of dollars to attend, nor do they openly talk about spiritual ceremonies to non-Indians. In fact, outsiders rarely know who these spiritual leaders are, even though they may have regular contact with them.
The stereotype image of an old holy man sequestered on a mountaintop, chanting rituals and existing on spirituality is fantasy. The truth is that many of these people have regular jobs in their pre-retirement years, because true spiritual leaders NEVER charge for their help. It is customary for the person or family requesting the services of a spiritual leader or healer to present them with a monetary or material gifts.

But there are numerous "fake Indians" (and undoubtedly a few real ones) who are distorting Indian spirituality to make money. Real Indian ceremonies generally take place on Indian land, owned by a Federally-recognized Indian Tribe, and are never open to outsiders, not even for money. Don't get ripped off by these frauds. They are just the new-age version of greedy, insincere televangelists

White Powwow Dancer

Hi
This just blew it!!:Yell :Yell What The He** they gotta cook up next?

__________________
Asema Is Sacred
Traditional Use, Not Misuse
Wakan Tanka please have compassion on me.
OK Niji we are running a train with red over yellow at this powwow.

Tibiki Kinew

quote from the site you posted

"Don's preliminary exposure to shamanism was through his uncle who taught him about seeing and the healing work of his great-grandmother, a Mohawk Indian." end quote


so where is her white???? I guess I am reading a different part of the story that you asked us to look at???

the only thing I find deplorable is that this ritual is on the web period, nothing more nothing less,,, my 2 cents

__________________
Listen to my heart, not just my mouth! The most powerfull thing we can do is,,,share,,, if we don't it dies with us.

The Children are our Future, without them we leave nothing behind but our silence...

Listen to the wind,,, it has so many secrets.... especially never assume who I am, you may get a surprize you are not ready for! Remember being Heyoka doesn't mean I am crazy, just having fun!!!
Born in Winnipeg raised in the Pikwakanagan, Deutschland was never home!

Mato Winyan

The one "claiming" great gramma blood is the guy... no where does the female say anything about native roots.... (and also I was privy to photos and other info that are separate from this. ;) )


Here is a link they list on their site... this doesn't say native to me either

http://www.cyberbohemia.com/Pages/sweat.htm

and here is a photo of Don Voss

__________________








"We see it as a desecration not only of a mountain but of our way of life. This is a genocidal issue to us. If they kill this mountain, they kill our way of life." ~Debra White Plume

One Hot Mama

Geez, I despise this New Age Shamanist/spiritualist lets-take-various-ceremonies-from-different-beliefs-and-mix-them-all-up crap. I guess since white folks have no real culture of their own they figure to make up for that by ripping off whatever looks good from as many other cultures as they can, always with the excuse that they are "honoring" that culture. Then they call us "ignorant" for being offended. Oh, please!

One Hot Mama

Maybe we should all send them indignant emails...or would they try to put on their website that they hear constantly from Native Americans from all over and fail to mention just what they are hearing?

Riverwoman

Nothing but a bunch of fakwin idiots looking to exploit native people......:Mad

DeusExMachina

Oh My Gawd!!!
Where the hell is The Rat when you need him?!?!

Not only it this the stoopidest thing I've ever seen, but that is easily one of the ugliest whities it has ever been my misfortune to look upon. What the hell is wrong with these people? I think there is something in white people's genes that makes them all theives and psychos. I don't think they can be cured, or reasoned with.

__________________
Mad Scientists Union Local 42
Evil Geniuses For a Better Tomorrow

The secret of my succes is 30% natural talent, 10% inspiration, and the remaining 60% is just the fact that I am nucking futs.

Blackbear

ARe these the same two that live close to Durham in Canada??? If so, they had this huge thing planned like this and alotof the natives from that area politely protested and kept it from happening. Why is it with some people that you teach them something that fills a void or makes them feel good, they gotta bottle it up and market it to make money?

__________________
Don't worry that it's not good enough for anyone else to hear... just sing, sing a song.

Blackbear

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...&category=1523

:Mad

__________________
Don't worry that it's not good enough for anyone else to hear... just sing, sing a song.

Riverwoman

Those people just dont get it, do they?

OUR WAY OF LIFE, OUR CULTURE OUR WAYS ARE NOT FOR SALE!!!!!


Not that "book" has anything to do with it *snicker*

White Powwow Dancer

Rouger that RW times 2 :Mad :Yell

__________________
Asema Is Sacred
Traditional Use, Not Misuse
Wakan Tanka please have compassion on me.
OK Niji we are running a train with red over yellow at this powwow.

storm

I have obviously missed the boat...
I guess I could be a millionare guru by now...
I give you all permission to hunt me down if I go that far...
You know. If they really belived in these way they would not do this...

__________________
My bark is worse than my bite