Women in Regalia Part 2.. white dancer discussion Part 1001

**spottedeagle** · 01-10-2004, 12:18 PM

C_Rock very politely put.

I have seen a recent trend recently on the boards with "white women" wanting to change our traditions. I don't have a problem with people of other cultures wanting to truely learn our ways and respectfully following our tradtions. But I have a problem with people who have no understanding of why things are done a certain way wanting to come along and changing things that have been done a certain way for a reason for thousands of years. Things are done that way for a reason.

In todays times too many people come along regardless of race, gender, national orgin, or religion...think something looks cool and decide to take a little from it and change everything else to suit themselves. Before something can be changed you must truely have an understanding for why something is being done. Wether you are talking about the way a car is built or the way traditions are being followed.

My suggestion to you Phoenix is that if you truely want to learn about our culture, actually take the time to learn it correctly. Talk to people open your ears and mind to what they are saying. The internet can be a useful tool for researching the histories of tribes as well as the dress. But to truely experience Native culture you need to do more. Go to powwows and watch, talk to people there and learn what they might be willing to teach you.

**BurBz** · 01-12-2004, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by C_Rock77
Many of the sentiments in this thread I couldn't agree with more! I'm a white man and I dance..but I wear Northern Traditional MEN'S clothes. The one question I had in my mind when I read your very first post was "WHY?" WHY would you want to cross dress? Sure, there are switch dances at powwows, but that's mostly a novelty..and I know some people don't look upon that favorably.

Sooo I'd like to know who made you the judge on what is right for white people to dance? Did you EARN those eagle feathers? Did you get initiated to dance with the feathers? Or did you learn it all online and in a book? Eagle feathers are very powerful and even too powerful for some people...if they are taken for granted it will affect you or your family later in life.....

Quote:

Originally posted by C_Rock77
Like me, you're white. You already take the chance of "ruffling feathers" just by donning regalia in the first place. You take that chance because this is not your native culture. You are asking to be accepted as a guest in this circle. Just as when you're a guest in someone's home, you don't offend your host! Pardon my french, but why in the HELL would you even THINK of doing something you KNOW has such a high liklihood of ruffling feathers, as you put it?

Correct, it is NOT EITHER OF YOUR CULTURES! Soooo why in the HELL WOULD YOU BOTH THINK OF DOING SOMETHING THAT IS NOT IN YOUR CULTURE?? Talk about ruffling feathers??

Quote:

Originally posted by C_Rock77
The rule of thumb I tell non-indian people interested in dancing to attempt to stay as "middle of the road" as they can get. I say this all the time concerning dancing and clothes....just because you see one or two people doing something, doesn't mean you should do it, too. This is not your culture...You're a guest here. You should try everything you can to not step on toes.

My thoughts exactly... AGAIN take your own advice as well C-Rock. Do you have to dance just because we natives have our culture? If all us natives jumped off a cliff in our regalia... would YOU go and jump too??

C_Rock77 · 01-12-2004, 11:27 PM

WHO the HELL are you?! You don't even know me, OR know ANYTHING about me! Have you ever seen me dance? Likely, NO!

As for where did I learn how to dance, or the ways in the circle...NO, I didn't learn them online or from a book. I learned by observing, watching, and speaking with knowledgeable individuals. I designed and crafted my clothes, myself, taking cues from old photos, new photos, videos, and not least of all, dancers I've danced with. I don't know everything, nor do I claim to. I'm still learning ways and traditions in this circle, and will continue to do so until the day I die.

As for MY reasons for dancing....they're mine....noone else's. Are you going to sit there and question anyone who follows the religion of Buddhism who's not Asian? Are you going to question someone's interest in something like Eastern Martial Arts and the associated philosophy if that person's NOT Japanese, Korean, or Chinese?

Evidently, YOU are not familiar with the Powwow... In EVERY conversation I've had with elders and other knowledgeable people about dancing, the question has come up of who is allowed to dance. In those instances they told me that the drum and dancing are for ALL PEOPLE. If you feel it, do it. Do this to the best of your abilities. Show respect, and dance.

Did they say this is ONLY for Indian people? NO! I have white friends who are members of war dance societies. Do you feel it's wrong for them to dance? Who are YOU to say it's wrong when the Head Man of that society took one of these men into his own family?

YOU don't know me or ANYTHING about me. Who are YOU to pass judgment on ME?!

**Jinglin Chica** · 01-13-2004, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by C_Rock77
YOU don't know me or ANYTHING about me. Who are YOU to pass judgement on ME?!

She's an full-blooded Native women, that's who she is. You're just some whiteguy wanting to be indian. Dance all you want white boy, just don't be bringing that shyt to the real ndn country. Stay in Arkansas.

**BurBz** · 01-13-2004, 12:13 AM

Biligana biligana Biligana...

you done opened a can of worms..

I am part of the pw trail.. i do have feathers/ i was brought into the circle CORRECTLY and i was TAUGHT by elders the ways to carry yourself in the pw circle. One thing i was always told was eagle feathers are NOT FOR EVERYONE... you are wearing eagle feathers.. and if you wear them at your own risk without the appropriate blessings.. it could like i have said earlier.. affect you or your family later in life...

Not all of pw country is willing to take in white folks to learn their tradition...

C_Rock77 · 01-13-2004, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jinglin Chica
She's an full-blooded Native women, that's who she is. You're just some whiteguy wanting to be indian. Dance all you want white boy, just don't be bringing that shyt to the real ndn country. Stay in Arkansas.

Just because she's "full-blooded," doesn't make her right. You know that as well as I do. You might not admit it, but you know it.

As for wanting to be Indian....No. I know who I am, and am proud of it. Just because I take part in this part of Indian culture, it doesn't mean I WANT to be Indian.

By the way....I WILL dance all I want. I'll also dance where I want. I've danced at many dances in TX and Oklahoma. I've not yet had the opportunity to go to any dances in the North, but have every intention of doing so in the future. I have native and non-native friends who have encouraged my following of these ways.

**Jinglin Chica** · 01-13-2004, 12:27 AM

No, I don't know you're right. You're wrong. I'm not going to sit here and watch you type all that. Thinking you know more about being Indian and about pow-wows? Please.

I don't know where you get your info. I've been Indian for 25yrs, how long have you been Indian? I'm sure you "ndns" in Arkansas know way more about our way of life more than us in Alberta or Arizona or Montana or Saskatchewan.

Mato Winyan · 01-13-2004, 12:31 AM

Let's get back on topic.... women in regalia. ;)

**Jinglin Chica** · 01-13-2004, 12:35 AM

My apologies. :Angel2

I thought this was "white men in ndn traditional regalia". :Chatter

**BurBz** · 01-13-2004, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jinglin Chica
My apologies. :Angel2

I thought this was "white men in ndn traditional regalia". :Chatter

lol...same difference

*LMAO* :lol2:

C_Rock77 · 01-13-2004, 12:41 AM

I didn't say I knew more about "being Indian" or powwows than you do.

Following your line of reason, you posess some inherent knowledge about these ways that you were born with and noone showed you. PLEASE! Following that same line of reason, every Chinese kid would know Kung Fu, Japanese kid would know Jiu Jutsu, and every white kid knows how to be a cowboy just by virtue of their genes. WHATEVER!

I never claimed to be Indian. I thought I made that part clear...or are you having problems with your comprehension?

This has got to be one of the most idiotic arguements into which I've ever entered. You don't know me, or anything about me...other than the fact that I'm white. So by all rights under your reasoning, NOONE who's not Indian has ANY rights on the dance floor. Well, sorry. Those are not the ways I learned. You think just because you are from a different region, you know MORE about the Indian people in this region?

ShttinPretty · 01-13-2004, 12:47 AM

No i don't think women should dance in northern tradish, let alone have a white man/woman dance what was given to us by our creators!!!

C_rock, you load of crock :D

01-10-2004, 12:18 PM	#1 (permalink)
spottedeagle FANMAKR Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Soaring over you Posts: 4,410	C_Rock very politely put. I have seen a recent trend recently on the boards with "white women" wanting to change our traditions. I don't have a problem with people of other cultures wanting to truely learn our ways and respectfully following our tradtions. But I have a problem with people who have no understanding of why things are done a certain way wanting to come along and changing things that have been done a certain way for a reason for thousands of years. Things are done that way for a reason. In todays times too many people come along regardless of race, gender, national orgin, or religion...think something looks cool and decide to take a little from it and change everything else to suit themselves. Before something can be changed you must truely have an understanding for why something is being done. Wether you are talking about the way a car is built or the way traditions are being followed. My suggestion to you Phoenix is that if you truely want to learn about our culture, actually take the time to learn it correctly. Talk to people open your ears and mind to what they are saying. The internet can be a useful tool for researching the histories of tribes as well as the dress. But to truely experience Native culture you need to do more. Go to powwows and watch, talk to people there and learn what they might be willing to teach you. __________________ The things you are doing today are the traditions of twenty-five years from now. -Daryl Baldwin: Miami

01-12-2004, 11:27 PM	#3 (permalink)
C_Rock77 Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Little Rock, AR Posts: 88	WHO the HELL are you?! You don't even know me, OR know ANYTHING about me! Have you ever seen me dance? Likely, NO! As for where did I learn how to dance, or the ways in the circle...NO, I didn't learn them online or from a book. I learned by observing, watching, and speaking with knowledgeable individuals. I designed and crafted my clothes, myself, taking cues from old photos, new photos, videos, and not least of all, dancers I've danced with. I don't know everything, nor do I claim to. I'm still learning ways and traditions in this circle, and will continue to do so until the day I die. As for MY reasons for dancing....they're mine....noone else's. Are you going to sit there and question anyone who follows the religion of Buddhism who's not Asian? Are you going to question someone's interest in something like Eastern Martial Arts and the associated philosophy if that person's NOT Japanese, Korean, or Chinese? Evidently, YOU are not familiar with the Powwow... In EVERY conversation I've had with elders and other knowledgeable people about dancing, the question has come up of who is allowed to dance. In those instances they told me that the drum and dancing are for ALL PEOPLE. If you feel it, do it. Do this to the best of your abilities. Show respect, and dance. Did they say this is ONLY for Indian people? NO! I have white friends who are members of war dance societies. Do you feel it's wrong for them to dance? Who are YOU to say it's wrong when the Head Man of that society took one of these men into his own family? YOU don't know me or ANYTHING about me. Who are YOU to pass judgment on ME?! Last edited by C_Rock77; 01-14-2004 at 06:38 AM.

01-13-2004, 12:13 AM	#5 (permalink)
BurBz Dineth Hearth Throth Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: az Posts: 13,893	Biligana biligana Biligana... you done opened a can of worms.. I am part of the pw trail.. i do have feathers/ i was brought into the circle CORRECTLY and i was TAUGHT by elders the ways to carry yourself in the pw circle. One thing i was always told was eagle feathers are NOT FOR EVERYONE... you are wearing eagle feathers.. and if you wear them at your own risk without the appropriate blessings.. it could like i have said earlier.. affect you or your family later in life... Not all of pw country is willing to take in white folks to learn their tradition... __________________ I'm not mean, you're just a sissy! :Tongue Last edited by BurBz; 01-13-2004 at 04:47 PM.

01-13-2004, 12:27 AM	#7 (permalink)
Jinglin Chica PowWows.com Addicts Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Morley, AB Posts: 15,858	No, I don't know you're right. You're wrong. I'm not going to sit here and watch you type all that. Thinking you know more about being Indian and about pow-wows? Please. I don't know where you get your info. I've been Indian for 25yrs, how long have you been Indian? I'm sure you "ndns" in Arkansas know way more about our way of life more than us in Alberta or Arizona or Montana or Saskatchewan. __________________ Hockey is soul food.

01-13-2004, 12:31 AM	#8 (permalink)
Mato Winyan Dancing makes you smile Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Indiana Posts: 5,480 Blog Entries: 4	Let's get back on topic.... women in regalia. ;) __________________ "We see it as a desecration not only of a mountain but of our way of life. This is a genocidal issue to us. If they kill this mountain, they kill our way of life." ~Debra White Plume

01-13-2004, 12:35 AM	#9 (permalink)
Jinglin Chica PowWows.com Addicts Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Morley, AB Posts: 15,858	My apologies. :Angel2 I thought this was "white men in ndn traditional regalia". :Chatter __________________ Hockey is soul food.

01-13-2004, 12:41 AM	#11 (permalink)
C_Rock77 Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Little Rock, AR Posts: 88	I didn't say I knew more about "being Indian" or powwows than you do. Following your line of reason, you posess some inherent knowledge about these ways that you were born with and noone showed you. PLEASE! Following that same line of reason, every Chinese kid would know Kung Fu, Japanese kid would know Jiu Jutsu, and every white kid knows how to be a cowboy just by virtue of their genes. WHATEVER! I never claimed to be Indian. I thought I made that part clear...or are you having problems with your comprehension? This has got to be one of the most idiotic arguements into which I've ever entered. You don't know me, or anything about me...other than the fact that I'm white. So by all rights under your reasoning, NOONE who's not Indian has ANY rights on the dance floor. Well, sorry. Those are not the ways I learned. You think just because you are from a different region, you know MORE about the Indian people in this region? Last edited by C_Rock77; 01-14-2004 at 06:40 AM.

01-13-2004, 12:47 AM	#12 (permalink)
ShttinPretty Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: all over canada Posts: 54	No i don't think women should dance in northern tradish, let alone have a white man/woman dance what was given to us by our creators!!! C_rock, you load of crock :D __________________ 80% devil 20% Angel

01-13-2004, 12:50 AM	#13 (permalink)
Mato Winyan Dancing makes you smile Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Indiana Posts: 5,480