Sqaw Dance?

eagle_plume999 · 09-29-2002, 06:22 PM

i am just wondering why the "sqaw dance" have changed to "side step" over the years. i have also seen that they have changed a little over sum years. back then they used to dance right beside each other and cannot pass, now some of the jingle dress dancers pass and are all spread out..i was just wonderin if you like how the jingle dress dancers dances back in the day rather than how they dance now...and can someone answer my question about the "sqaw dance" im still confused..lol

09-29-2002, 07:19 PM

Let's stop using that outdated word "squaw" many people find it offensive, not to mention demeaning to women!

09-30-2002, 05:20 PM

To each his own...

n8tivechick · 09-30-2002, 06:26 PM

!OMG PLEASE DO NOT USE THAT WORD!!!!! we don't need another UBB war

-Kelli

Tsiniti · 09-30-2002, 06:50 PM

Thank you so much for posting that website! I've had more than one arguement about that stupid word, now have the proof to back me up, I'm sending a copy to the people who think they know more than everyone else I know who insist they are right about that word, and NEVER done any research on their own!! GGGGGrrrrrrr
ok I feel better now!

Mato Winyan · 10-01-2002, 04:24 PM

That is one hazard of the internet. This is ONE site. ONE persons opinion on THEIR site.

Click on the link to google search for "squaw name" Over 46,800 links. Now go through each one and see how many you find in favor of it.

Now here is my question to you. If there are alot of people who are offended by this, why would you want to insist on using it? :Thinking Just to make YOUR point?
I can have my own personal opinion and let another have theirs, without putting mine out there.
I saw on the tv yesterday a woman speaking about a friend that wanted to be called queer instead of gay. Now since we know so many are offended by that term would we insist on using it, with that knowledge being known ahead of time?
Do you want to be "right" or do you want to bring peace and joy into the world? You already believe you are right.... so why not go for the latter? ;)

google search.. on "s" word..

Ceapha_0919 · 10-01-2002, 04:44 PM

These are some Jay-Z lyrics I found. I thought it would be interesting to post on this topic...

"I got this indian squaw the day that I met her
Asked her what tribe she with, red dot or feather
She said all you need to know is I'm not a ***
And to get with me you better be Chief Lots-a-Dough"

eagle_plume999 · 10-01-2002, 04:45 PM

so i have affended alot of peopl by using the "s" word...i only asked the question so i could understand it, not to start another "war". i had no idea what the word meant so forgive me. i didnt use the word just to get to my point, because i had no point to get across... i was just curious and wanted to know but i guess people took it the wrong way....

Ceapha_0919 · 10-01-2002, 04:58 PM

Sorry I couldnt answer your question Eagle Plume. I just thought my post would add to it a lil bit but I guess not. I come in peace- I dont want to start another war *L* I understand your curiosity and I would really like to see your question get answered as well. So to get back on topic, I'll ask the question again. Why did the "Squaw Dance" change to the side step and do you think it's danced better now or before it was changed?

Nagi · 10-02-2002, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by eagle_plume999
i am just wondering why ... changed to "side step" ... used to dance right beside each other ... now some pass and are all spread out..

This isn't based on explicit knowledge, but is an ATTEMPT at logical reasoning based on my own experiences. I have been to powwows in South Dakota and the Southeast, and have a video collection that includes powwows from Canada and the Northwest.

Maybe back a spell an MC decided "side step" defined the dance better for the audience. After all, there are a number of dances done by women. Only two of those dances are done sideways - the side step (by today's terms) and the round dance. When MCs announce a side step, there's no confusion about who's heading into that circle to dance, right? So maybe it was just an MC who liked to make sure it was very clear what dance he was announcing.

Maybe the change from close together and not passing happened when more and more contests for higher and higher prize money started happening. You have to admit that some (I SAID SOME) contest powwows are more about the prize money than the dances and some dancers are also more about the prize money than the dancers. Maybe getting prime position for a few moments in front of each judge is changing the manner in which the dancers dance.

OR ... maybe the spreading out happened due to a lower number of jingle dancers who simply took advantage of the space.

Those are just thoughts - like I said, using logical reasoning to try to figure out the answer.

Valerie

10-08-2002, 12:34 AM

I didn't start hearing the term "side-step" until at least ten years ago when the jingle dress category first starting getting popular. I think the term probably was started by an MC simply for the lack of knowing what the dance was called, or extending the courtesy of not using the word squaw.

The dance comes from the ceremony called "big drum." Or, that is what it is called where I come from. Here, our big drum ceremony lasts two days. On the first night, we have a "squaw dance." The dance is similar to the modern "side-step." The ogichidakwe (the women who belong on the big drum) wear their jingle dresses to the squaw dance. We dance until the early morning hours.

In my honest personal opinion, it doesn't bother me much how the women dance today - because it's all commercialized. Sequins and rhinestones are used to add sparkle to dresses. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that. Just pointing out that contest pow-wows with high stakes and aggresive competition are just that. Nothing more. It's all about who dances the best and has the nicest outfit.

Again, I'm not trying to start any arguments - just wanted to add my two cents.

**LittleCricket** · 10-08-2002, 12:42 AM

Quote:

[i]Originally posted by Mato Winyan

Click on the link to google search for "squaw name" Over 46,800 links. Now go through each one and see how many you find in favor of it.

Now here is my question to you. If there are alot of people who are offended by this, why would you want to insist on using it? :Thinking Just to make YOUR point?
I can have my own personal opinion and let another have theirs, without putting mine out there.

Do you want to be "right" or do you want to bring peace and joy into the world? You already believe you are right.... so why not go for the latter? ;)

google search.. on "s" word.. [/b]

That about sums it up!!;)

**~*~ShanLyn~*~** · 10-09-2002, 04:37 PM

well jus goes to show how DUH i am.......i never even really knew what the term meant, i knew that some people were like omg no dont use that word but i had no clue why! you have enlightened me as to why some were offended by it.....

sweetkwe69 · 10-18-2002, 01:14 PM

i have to agree with MP girl, we have big drums on our res and like u say now jingle dress at pow-wow isnt what we got going at the big drum ceremonies, besides i like watching and listening to the stories about the jingle go further away from the original story but i guess to each there own just watch and enjoy as for squaw hmmm doesnt bug me we as woman could be called worse lol

eagleclan22 · 10-24-2002, 12:35 AM

I really liked what MP Girl said. Ill give my two cents of what I know. I also dance Jingle and dont compete, out of respect mostly for the dress itself (only my opinion). Traditionally jingle dress dancing was done for healing, I guess in the big drum ceremony..... The dance was not all this fancy footwork it is today and they always danced forwards. Simply going forward and never turnig or twirling or backing up, they would dance in a zig zag style to represent life (so what I have been told) The side step is probably the more traditional style dance, when they danced side step they made a line, and stayed in that line and didnt pass eachother, this was respect for one another, and represented walking life as equals. This is what I know if anyone has anymore info Id sure love to hear it : )

I learned most of this from Northwest Ontario... Lake of the Woods area's. Home of the Jingle Dress! : ):Angel:

smartyquay · 11-23-2002, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MP-girl
I didn't start hearing the term "side-step" until at least ten years ago when the jingle dress category first starting getting popular. I think the term probably was started by an MC simply for the lack of knowing what the dance was called, or extending the courtesy of not using the word squaw.

The dance comes from the ceremony called "big drum." Or, that is what it is called where I come from. Here, our big drum ceremony lasts two days. On the first night, we have a "squaw dance." The dance is similar to the modern "side-step." The ogichidakwe (the women who belong on the big drum) wear their jingle dresses to the squaw dance. We dance until the early morning hours.

In my honest personal opinion, it doesn't bother me much how the women dance today - because it's all commercialized. Sequins and rhinestones are used to add sparkle to dresses. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that. Just pointing out that contest pow-wows with high stakes and aggresive competition are just that. Nothing more. It's all about who dances the best and has the nicest outfit.

Again, I'm not trying to start any arguments - just wanted to add my two cents.

I couldn't have said it any better... RIGHT ON "girl"!:Thumbs... Now see... I don't know why people get all :Shocked and :Flame about it....

psst... guess who this is!

luvstraightdancrs · 11-23-2002, 12:51 AM

The Sac and Fox have a "Squaw Dance" it is used in one of their ceremonies. Don't know much about it - have never been but heard many adopted relatives speaking of it.

09-29-2002, 06:22 PM	#1 (permalink)
eagle_plume999 Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: inna teepee Posts: 61	Sqaw Dance? i am just wondering why the "sqaw dance" have changed to "side step" over the years. i have also seen that they have changed a little over sum years. back then they used to dance right beside each other and cannot pass, now some of the jingle dress dancers pass and are all spread out..i was just wonderin if you like how the jingle dress dancers dances back in the day rather than how they dance now...and can someone answer my question about the "sqaw dance" im still confused..lol

09-30-2002, 06:26 PM	#4 (permalink)
n8tivechick Jinglin fool... Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: YES! There really is a Kalamazoo, Michigan! Posts: 321	!OMG PLEASE DO NOT USE THAT WORD!!!!! we don't need another UBB war -Kelli __________________ If you lose the drum beat of the creator, you are lost in life - Aanishnabe You say I don't look indian? Well you don't look stupid, but looks can be deceiving!

09-30-2002, 06:50 PM	#5 (permalink)
Tsiniti Dancin n Vendin Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: TN Posts: 295	Thank you so much for posting that website! I've had more than one arguement about that stupid word, now have the proof to back me up, I'm sending a copy to the people who think they know more than everyone else I know who insist they are right about that word, and NEVER done any research on their own!! GGGGGrrrrrrr ok I feel better now! __________________ Your Heart Shows by how Your Words and Actions Affect Others. Nah I ain't NO WANNABE! I don't gotta wannabe when people wannabe like me!

10-01-2002, 04:24 PM	#6 (permalink)
Mato Winyan Gangster of Love Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Indiana Posts: 5,497 Blog Entries: 4	That is one hazard of the internet. This is ONE site. ONE persons opinion on THEIR site. Click on the link to google search for "squaw name" Over 46,800 links. Now go through each one and see how many you find in favor of it. Now here is my question to you. If there are alot of people who are offended by this, why would you want to insist on using it? :Thinking Just to make YOUR point? I can have my own personal opinion and let another have theirs, without putting mine out there. I saw on the tv yesterday a woman speaking about a friend that wanted to be called queer instead of gay. Now since we know so many are offended by that term would we insist on using it, with that knowledge being known ahead of time? Do you want to be "right" or do you want to bring peace and joy into the world? You already believe you are right.... so why not go for the latter? ;) google search.. on "s" word.. __________________ "We see it as a desecration not only of a mountain but of our way of life. This is a genocidal issue to us. If they kill this mountain, they kill our way of life." ~Debra White Plume

10-01-2002, 04:44 PM	#7 (permalink)
Ceapha_0919 Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 60	These are some Jay-Z lyrics I found. I thought it would be interesting to post on this topic... "I got this indian squaw the day that I met her Asked her what tribe she with, red dot or feather She said all you need to know is I'm not a *** And to get with me you better be Chief Lots-a-Dough" __________________ How u gonna act like my shawl dont bling? How u gonna act like my fringe dont swing?

09-29-2002, 07:19 PM	#2 (permalink)
Riverwoman Guest Posts: n/a	Let's stop using that outdated word "squaw" many people find it offensive, not to mention demeaning to women!

09-30-2002, 05:20 PM	#3 (permalink)
Riverwoman Guest Posts: n/a	To each his own...

10-01-2002, 04:45 PM	#8 (permalink)
eagle_plume999 Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: inna teepee Posts: 61	well.. so i have affended alot of peopl by using the "s" word...i only asked the question so i could understand it, not to start another "war". i had no idea what the word meant so forgive me. i didnt use the word just to get to my point, because i had no point to get across... i was just curious and wanted to know but i guess people took it the wrong way....

10-01-2002, 04:58 PM	#9 (permalink)
Ceapha_0919 Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 60	Sorry I couldnt answer your question Eagle Plume. I just thought my post would add to it a lil bit but I guess not. I come in peace- I dont want to start another war L I understand your curiosity and I would really like to see your question get answered as well. So to get back on topic, I'll ask the question again. Why did the "Squaw Dance" change to the side step and do you think it's danced better now or before it was changed? __________________ How u gonna act like my shawl dont bling? How u gonna act like my fringe dont swing?

10-08-2002, 12:34 AM	#11 (permalink)
MP-girl Guest Posts: n/a	I didn't start hearing the term "side-step" until at least ten years ago when the jingle dress category first starting getting popular. I think the term probably was started by an MC simply for the lack of knowing what the dance was called, or extending the courtesy of not using the word squaw. The dance comes from the ceremony called "big drum." Or, that is what it is called where I come from. Here, our big drum ceremony lasts two days. On the first night, we have a "squaw dance." The dance is similar to the modern "side-step." The ogichidakwe (the women who belong on the big drum) wear their jingle dresses to the squaw dance. We dance until the early morning hours. In my honest personal opinion, it doesn't bother me much how the women dance today - because it's all commercialized. Sequins and rhinestones are used to add sparkle to dresses. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that. Just pointing out that contest pow-wows with high stakes and aggresive competition are just that. Nothing more. It's all about who dances the best and has the nicest outfit. Again, I'm not trying to start any arguments - just wanted to add my two cents.

10-09-2002, 04:37 PM	#13 (permalink)
*~~ShanLyn~~* Addy's Mommy Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: ¤(¯`·._»Pistons Country«_.·´¯)¤ Posts: 4,042	well jus goes to show how DUH i am.......i never even really knew what the term meant, i knew that some people were like omg no dont use that word but i had no clue why! you have enlightened me as to why some were offended by it..... __________________ **~~¤(¯`·._» >The Prettiest People do the Ugliest things <«_.·´¯)¤ ~~**

10-18-2002, 01:14 PM	#14 (permalink)
sweetkwe69 Mille Lacs Ojibwe Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Minnesota Posts: 513	i have to agree with MP girl, we have big drums on our res and like u say now jingle dress at pow-wow isnt what we got going at the big drum ceremonies, besides i like watching and listening to the stories about the jingle go further away from the original story but i guess to each there own just watch and enjoy as for squaw hmmm doesnt bug me we as woman could be called worse lol

10-24-2002, 12:35 AM	#15 (permalink)
eagleclan22 Breath Inspector Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Sagkeeng First Nation Posts: 317	I really liked what MP Girl said. Ill give my two cents of what I know. I also dance Jingle and dont compete, out of respect mostly for the dress itself (only my opinion). Traditionally jingle dress dancing was done for healing, I guess in the big drum ceremony..... The dance was not all this fancy footwork it is today and they always danced forwards. Simply going forward and never turnig or twirling or backing up, they would dance in a zig zag style to represent life (so what I have been told) The side step is probably the more traditional style dance, when they danced side step they made a line, and stayed in that line and didnt pass eachother, this was respect for one another, and represented walking life as equals. This is what I know if anyone has anymore info Id sure love to hear it : ) I learned most of this from Northwest Ontario... Lake of the Woods area's. Home of the Jingle Dress! : ):Angel: __________________ NO MY EYES REALLY DONT LOOK LIKE THAT........ THATS ME AS A BRATZ DOLL ;) http://pages.ivillage.com/sagkeengpowwow2003/ Some guys are good with their drum sticks.... and some just arent...:karate:

11-23-2002, 12:51 AM	#17 (permalink)
luvstraightdancrs Senior Dancer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Southern Straight country Posts: 660	The Sac and Fox have a "Squaw Dance" it is used in one of their ceremonies. Don't know much about it - have never been but heard many adopted relatives speaking of it.