Old Syle Outfits

lil_powwow_honey · 09-19-2008, 01:32 PM

What do you think of the flashy outfits today? I think it would be great to see more old style outfits at pow wows. It's time we got back to the old school stuff. Bring back the old style dance and outfit. We need to remind people what the dress is all about before it's too late! I'm going to post a picture of an awesome old style Great Lakes Region jingle dress let me know what you think of it.

Canada#1 · 09-19-2008, 02:51 PM

That is sweet!

**Eagle Plumes** · 09-19-2008, 03:17 PM

Soo pretty. yrs ago I saw one gal witha velvet Jingle dress on and it was beaded, could barely take my eyes off it,diddnt want to be rude ,but it was sooo unlike anything out there.

thunderbirdwoman · 09-19-2008, 03:33 PM

yes, you sure have inspired me t start making them again i make jingle dresses but i think it is time for change and to restore our traditions thank yo very much

cherokeemom06 · 09-19-2008, 08:13 PM

I am going to start making myself another jingle dress soon and I was planning on doing a very simple dress as well. It's going to be a dark burgundy with a navy blue velvet collar/cape (whatever you want to call it) and the cape will have dogwoods beaded on it. I'm gonna use ivory bias tape for the jingles and a light pink for the sleeves and for a band around the bottom.

I love the old school stuff as well as the newer stuff. I think the neons get a little out there though. A little bright is ok, but I saw one that was neon green with day-glo orange and pink applique. It was bright! Leave the solid neons to fancy shawl if you ask me!

luvstraightdancrs · 09-19-2008, 09:04 PM

The picture you posted was awesome. Such beauty!

I know that I like the old style look, but for all categories, not just one or two. Like someone said, the new colors are pretty and so are the materials. But I think each style looses something when you stray too far from the original idea. Just my two cents.

My daugher dances jingle and is wanting a simple dress. Can't wait to get started on it.

gramma de · 09-20-2008, 02:28 PM

That is a beautiful dress, When I danced as a young girl,I always loved the way the dresses sounded. I didn't jingle dance I just admired them. When I was a toddler, I had TB and a woman and her husband made me a jingle dress and mocassins and gave them to my mother and had a song sung for me.They said it would make me well, and here I am today.That dress is very dear to me and no one has ever wore it.The jingles are made from old commodity lids and are very tiny. My mother said that this dress took a long time to make and those cones make a music.That old couple is long gone and when I asked my mother why they did that, she said the man said he dreamed that he was supposed to.
I believe that medicine of these dresses is strong,when they are made for that purpose.So I always love to watch the jingle dancers. I never danced it but I was told that when you dance in one, you should be praying for someone in need while you dance.Thats what I was told,but that doesn't mean it is the only way or only right thing, just what I was told.
I agree, sometimes it would be nice to see old way dances,when I was young,dances were all spoke in lakota where I grew up.

Dat1NdnGuy · 09-20-2008, 06:50 PM

I thought Ol' Style WAS the IT trend these days?...LOL. Seriously all my contemp frenz are swapping there stuff out for old style, more and more fancy dancers are trynna be like tawny hale and amber rose cleveland with the simple solid shawls and such. even my grasser frenz are hittin up the more 'traditional' beadwork designs and outfits.

I notice it more and more these days. more jinglers goin old style, some of which are more successful at it than others.

**Roobz** · 09-20-2008, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dat1NdnGuy

I thought Ol' Style WAS the IT trend these days?...LOL.

I notice it more and more these days. more jinglers goin old style, some of which are more successful at it than others.

yeah I agree.

While it is nice to see, as an ojibwe jingler I would like to see it extend beyond more than just a trend and hope that the sudden influx of old style jinglers can keep on doing it years from now. Maybe with the old style vs. contemporary debates; more powwows can start offering the categories separately. That would be sure to keep some negative feelings away as it doesn't seem right to put down dancers for their style of dance and how they present their outfits (but it happens at every powwow and I understand that) It takes a lot to get out there and do what they do and it's much easier to sit in the stands and criticize someone because maybe their beadwork is too flashy yet we don't know, there could be a good story behind that bead work and it's special to that dancer and reflects their clan, tribe and/or Indian name. Or their dress only has an X amount of rows yet might have near 300+ jingles depending of how they're spaced and sewed down, yet you look in the MN Historical Society archives and see the black and white pics of the ojibwe jinglers with a few rows and their jingles are a little smaller and more narrow than those today but man they sure do have a beautiful sound! (I thought of a few old dresses that have been passed down in my family when I talked of that sound)

For those that are concerned that the old style jingle dress dance is on the way to nonexistence I'd invite you to attend a traditional powwow anywhere in Ojibwe country and you'll get a good dose of straight up old style. Even in Ojibwe country, old style differs depending on what part you are in. What one may deem old style in Obaashing may be different than what they do in Naotkamegwanning or Misi-zagaa'iganing I guess just as our language differs with dialects and such.

That being said, can we really truly put one definition on old style? What is it to you? If a dancer with a "flashy" outfit and beadwork is out there doing old style steps then what are they? If a dancer with granny braids, calico print dress/or velvet dress and otter furs are kicking and doing contemp moves are they old style? Or do you have to have the old style look and the steps to be considered true oldstyle. I guess we could get really technical and start comparing the old style look of today to what was really represented in the past and be amazed. I know I've talked to a well respected old style ojibwe jingler and she remarked on how the old style jingle look that we see represented at powwows lately is different than how she remembers and was taught.

Just some thoughts to ponder.

I have no problems with the flashy outfits of today nor the old style looking outfits of today as long as they're well put together and aren't totally over the top lol I really do like to see and I admire the creativity and talent people have in outfit design and construction. I realize that not everyone is going to like every dancer's style and outfits, heck I have a few cringe moments when I see jinglers spinning full circles but that's just me. We're all different, and I can't expect everyone to see things through my eyes and agree with it all. I mean no disrespect with this post. I've been a member on here awhile and come on here from time to time and see discussions like this generated and this is my first time posting on here in a loooooong time! lol So I'm not even sure of how this will be taken or if someone is going to get offended but I just want to say don't get your undergarments in a wad over this, a question was asked and I'm answering. lol I apologize for the long post!

By the way, that is a beautiful jingle outfit! Wow :)
Miigwech bizindawiyeg :)

Dat1NdnGuy · 09-20-2008, 08:43 PM

o when it comes to jingle stuff I admit, I dont have the foggiest of ideas what is deemed "old style" seeing as how i'm sure ojibwe's wouldnt see it that way, and from what i've been told the ojibs have societies, and ceremonies with that dress that are entirely separate from powwows alltogether. I have a great deal of respect for that, so I didnt mean to "Critisize" anyone...I just like diversity.

if anything us Skins are resilient and talented. FAR too talented to all be, look, dance, dress the Same. all just because we saw someone "popular" dressed that way ya know?

**Roobz** · 09-20-2008, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dat1NdnGuy

o when it comes to jingle stuff I admit, I dont have the foggiest of ideas what is deemed "old style" seeing as how i'm sure ojibwe's wouldnt see it that way, and from what i've been told the ojibs have societies, and ceremonies with that dress that are entirely separate from powwows alltogether. I have a great deal of respect for that, so I didnt mean to "Critisize" anyone...I just like diversity.

if anything us Skins are resilient and talented. FAR too talented to all be, look, dance, dress the Same. all just because we saw someone "popular" dressed that way ya know?

Naw I didn't think you were criticizing and I totally agree with your posts. I was just throwing some questions out there for anyone to ponder really. Yeah I think we are far too dang talented; I love diversity in bead work and sewing. It's cool to see what new dresses a dancer can come out with to match her bead work or any dancer for that matter!

You know how you mentioned it kind of seems like a trend, (not that there's anything wrong with it) but I wonder how long this one will last and what do you think the new big thing will be?

cherokeemom06 · 09-20-2008, 10:30 PM

I totally agree with everything that's been said. I know I've gotten both good and bad comments about my dress, but like someone said, they don't know the story behind it. My dress is very contemporary but I dance closer to old style (very simple footwork, no full circles, no dancing backward) so I don't know what you'd classify me as. I don't compete at all so it doesn't really matter to me. I love the look of the old dresses though. Planning on making my baby girl's first jingle out of a really pretty light green calico that I found.

luvstraightdancrs · 09-21-2008, 11:31 AM

This is a great thread. All points that have been offered are very positive. I am an old school kind of woman. I make indian clothes for alot of dancers in Oklahoma and I love everything I've made. Done both, contemporary and old school. But if I had my druthers, it would be old school all the way. I just like the look of it, especially when the dancer wears it and dances in the same style.

I personally think it makes it more authentic to the culture. And while I know NDNs adapt to the times, use the materials available and whatever else the arguement is, I feel it just looks cleaner, fresher and down to earth.

I love the contemporary on some dancers (fits their style) but give me Willow Jack in her old style dresses any day. Same with the other categories, Tawny Hale flat rocks but her clothes fit her style.....old school! Those are two women that are keepin it real when dressed in a less flashy way.

Just my two cents, sorry if anyone is offended, didn't mean to. Just gotta keep dancin whatever style you are!

ndngirl70 · 09-23-2008, 11:55 AM

That is an awesome dress. I've been toying with the idea of making a velvet dress.....gotta love that woodlands beadwork!

09-19-2008, 03:17 PM	#3 (permalink)
Eagle Plumes Just Bead it! Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: MId-West Posts: 11,492	Soo pretty. yrs ago I saw one gal witha velvet Jingle dress on and it was beaded, could barely take my eyes off it,diddnt want to be rude ,but it was sooo unlike anything out there. __________________ I got a fevah! And the only cure is more cowbell!!!

09-20-2008, 06:50 PM	#8 (permalink)
Dat1NdnGuy Aint Dat Sumptin? Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 1,029	I thought Ol' Style WAS the IT trend these days?...LOL. Seriously all my contemp frenz are swapping there stuff out for old style, more and more fancy dancers are trynna be like tawny hale and amber rose cleveland with the simple solid shawls and such. even my grasser frenz are hittin up the more 'traditional' beadwork designs and outfits. I notice it more and more these days. more jinglers goin old style, some of which are more successful at it than others. __________________ "Out greatest fear is not that we are inadequate, our greatest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light not our darkness that most frightens us." "Never Compromise yourself, Your all you've got" "An eye for an eye will only lead to a blind world."

09-20-2008, 08:43 PM	#10 (permalink)
Dat1NdnGuy Aint Dat Sumptin? Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 1,029	o when it comes to jingle stuff I admit, I dont have the foggiest of ideas what is deemed "old style" seeing as how i'm sure ojibwe's wouldnt see it that way, and from what i've been told the ojibs have societies, and ceremonies with that dress that are entirely separate from powwows alltogether. I have a great deal of respect for that, so I didnt mean to "Critisize" anyone...I just like diversity. if anything us Skins are resilient and talented. FAR too talented to all be, look, dance, dress the Same. all just because we saw someone "popular" dressed that way ya know? __________________ "Out greatest fear is not that we are inadequate, our greatest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light not our darkness that most frightens us." "Never Compromise yourself, Your all you've got" "An eye for an eye will only lead to a blind world."

09-23-2008, 11:55 AM	#14 (permalink)
ndngirl70 powwow bum Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: In your dreams Posts: 1,290	That is an awesome dress. I've been toying with the idea of making a velvet dress.....gotta love that woodlands beadwork! __________________ Once upon a time Everything was fine You were beside me- you were mine Why did you have to walk out my door? Now you want me back again I am sorry

09-19-2008, 02:51 PM	#2 (permalink)
Canada#1 Banned Join Date: May 2008 Location: Western Canada Posts: 73	That is sweet!

09-19-2008, 03:33 PM	#4 (permalink)
thunderbirdwoman beader and grandmother Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: prince albert sask. Posts: 45	yes, you sure have inspired me t start making them again i make jingle dresses but i think it is time for change and to restore our traditions thank yo very much

09-19-2008, 08:13 PM	#5 (permalink)
cherokeemom06 Jingling mommy.... Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Kentucky Posts: 284	I am going to start making myself another jingle dress soon and I was planning on doing a very simple dress as well. It's going to be a dark burgundy with a navy blue velvet collar/cape (whatever you want to call it) and the cape will have dogwoods beaded on it. I'm gonna use ivory bias tape for the jingles and a light pink for the sleeves and for a band around the bottom. I love the old school stuff as well as the newer stuff. I think the neons get a little out there though. A little bright is ok, but I saw one that was neon green with day-glo orange and pink applique. It was bright! Leave the solid neons to fancy shawl if you ask me!

09-19-2008, 09:04 PM	#6 (permalink)
luvstraightdancrs Senior Dancer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Southern Straight country Posts: 660	The picture you posted was awesome. Such beauty! I know that I like the old style look, but for all categories, not just one or two. Like someone said, the new colors are pretty and so are the materials. But I think each style looses something when you stray too far from the original idea. Just my two cents. My daugher dances jingle and is wanting a simple dress. Can't wait to get started on it.

09-20-2008, 02:28 PM	#7 (permalink)
gramma de gramma de Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: North Dakota Posts: 5	That is a beautiful dress, When I danced as a young girl,I always loved the way the dresses sounded. I didn't jingle dance I just admired them. When I was a toddler, I had TB and a woman and her husband made me a jingle dress and mocassins and gave them to my mother and had a song sung for me.They said it would make me well, and here I am today.That dress is very dear to me and no one has ever wore it.The jingles are made from old commodity lids and are very tiny. My mother said that this dress took a long time to make and those cones make a music.That old couple is long gone and when I asked my mother why they did that, she said the man said he dreamed that he was supposed to. I believe that medicine of these dresses is strong,when they are made for that purpose.So I always love to watch the jingle dancers. I never danced it but I was told that when you dance in one, you should be praying for someone in need while you dance.Thats what I was told,but that doesn't mean it is the only way or only right thing, just what I was told. I agree, sometimes it would be nice to see old way dances,when I was young,dances were all spoke in lakota where I grew up.

09-20-2008, 10:30 PM	#12 (permalink)
cherokeemom06 Jingling mommy.... Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Kentucky Posts: 284	I totally agree with everything that's been said. I know I've gotten both good and bad comments about my dress, but like someone said, they don't know the story behind it. My dress is very contemporary but I dance closer to old style (very simple footwork, no full circles, no dancing backward) so I don't know what you'd classify me as. I don't compete at all so it doesn't really matter to me. I love the look of the old dresses though. Planning on making my baby girl's first jingle out of a really pretty light green calico that I found.

09-21-2008, 11:31 AM	#13 (permalink)
luvstraightdancrs Senior Dancer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Southern Straight country Posts: 660	This is a great thread. All points that have been offered are very positive. I am an old school kind of woman. I make indian clothes for alot of dancers in Oklahoma and I love everything I've made. Done both, contemporary and old school. But if I had my druthers, it would be old school all the way. I just like the look of it, especially when the dancer wears it and dances in the same style. I personally think it makes it more authentic to the culture. And while I know NDNs adapt to the times, use the materials available and whatever else the arguement is, I feel it just looks cleaner, fresher and down to earth. I love the contemporary on some dancers (fits their style) but give me Willow Jack in her old style dresses any day. Same with the other categories, Tawny Hale flat rocks but her clothes fit her style.....old school! Those are two women that are keepin it real when dressed in a less flashy way. Just my two cents, sorry if anyone is offended, didn't mean to. Just gotta keep dancin whatever style you are!