Question on how many rows???

tigger · 05-15-2006, 11:30 AM

i heard this past weekend from an elderly lady that you could only have 7 rows of jingles on your dress. this lady told a friend of mine this and my friend was concerned that she really messed up. can anyone help out. thanks. p.s her dress is a compitition style dress.

WhoMe · 05-15-2006, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tigger

i heard this past weekend from an elderly lady that you could only have 7 rows of jingles on your dress. this lady told a friend of mine this and my friend was concerned that she really messed up. can anyone help out. thanks. p.s her dress is a compitition style dress.

tigger,

Perhaps you could ask this "elder" to share why she believes only seven rows should be used?

I believe that this question and the question of using 365 cones has been disproved by the Anishinabe Kwes in other threads.

**Kiwehnzii** · 05-15-2006, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tigger

i heard this past weekend from an elderly lady that you could only have 7 rows of jingles on your dress. this lady told a friend of mine this and my friend was concerned that she really messed up. can anyone help out. thanks. p.s her dress is a compitition style dress.

I agree wholeheartedly with Whome. From the question you are asking, it appears that neither you or your friend have taken the time to sit with an elder and learned about the dress. It's a good idea to do that.

pretty_indian · 05-15-2006, 02:57 PM

i believe that according to some ojibway teachings, there are supposed to be seven rows for the seven teachings with 365 jingles for the days of the year if you are doing traditional jingle.
i think for contemporary you should be able to do what you want because is it not called contemporary for a reason?
everyone's entitled to their own opinion. However i agree with Kiwehnzii, you should sit with the elder and learn about it even if your friend decides not to put seven rows on her dress.

**Migiziwomen** · 05-15-2006, 03:06 PM

it did not surpise me to see at the end of your post that it is a comp dress. may i ask what you said to the Elder? your friend should really know more about this dress that she borrowed, ( and i mean in the sense that the dress belongs to my nation) WhoMe is right on, and as I see all the posts after say the same thing, so that is my advise also. it is to bad that you had this well of info at your fingertips and you did not dig. i hope you at least thanked her for her input. i am not going to get into the answer, you need to go talk to an elder, preferably a shinob elder. good luck

WhoMe · 05-15-2006, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pretty_indian

i believe that according to some ojibway teachings, there are supposed to be seven rows for the seven teachings with 365 jingles for the days of the year ....

pretty_i,

Nope.

All of the posts by the Anisinabe Kwes are in unison that the seven rows and 365 cones is a "MYTH." This myth originated and is perpetuated by other tribes who have adopted their dance.

They should know. It's their dance.

There are a lot of knowledgable Anisinabe jingle dress dancers on here.

**Jibby™** · 05-15-2006, 04:57 PM

Welp. See, the dress itself has been bassturdized by other nations and it shouldn't come as a great surprise that the teachings and/or history surrounding the dress is convoluted.

Here's the thing. You have people out there perpetuating rumours and heresay to uphold the whole "romantic, noble Indian" image that is incessantly extended across America and even in Indian Country. I was never taught that your dress has to have 7 rows to represent the 7 teachings or 365 cones to represent every day of the year. I mean, even though the dress did originate in the post-colonalization era, our peeps traditions and adaptive strategies have always reflected the 4 seasons and not the Roman calendar.

In my humble opinion, the most important teaching to know about the dress is it's origin and purpose. So long as one attempts to acquire the knowledge and demonstrates a genuine understanding of it's origins, and resists further convolusion, then I am cool with other Nations dancing the style. Not that I am the authority or anything - just trying to offer some advice.

Like, Kiwehnzii said and MigizeWoman have said - it would be best to consult and Anishinabe elder to ascertain the appropriate wisdom in regards to the dress and dancing that particular style.

**Jibby™** · 05-15-2006, 05:08 PM

You essentially answered your own question upon indicating that it is a "competition" style dress. If this person is using this dress intending to compete against other women then traditonal teachings do not apply. And would be a waste of time.

If peeps are gonna keep exploiting the dress, then don't try and act all someways about it and apply only those aspects of dancing in anticipation that you will presumably or professedly increase your status as as authentic jingle dancer.

Giminadan Gagiginonshiwan ... MEEGWETCH!

**Jibby™** · 05-15-2006, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jibby™

You essentially answered your own question upon indicating that it is a "competition" style dress. If this person is using this dress intending to compete against other women then traditonal teachings do not apply. And would be a waste of time.

If peeps are gonna keep exploiting the dress, then don't try and act all someways about it and apply only those aspects of dancing in anticipation that you will presumably or professedly increase your status as as authentic jingle dancer.

Giminadan Gagiginonshiwan ... MEEGWETCH!

The above was not intended to condemn competition jinglers in any way shape or form. I love watching them all, especially those who represent with much class, dignity and grace (Willow Jack, Kit Landry newly on the jingle scene!, Leah Omiosoo [sp?]). However, these gals don't go around claiming the authenticity of their dresses or what ceremonies/teaching/fasts/dreams they've had in order to dance jingle.

They just ARE authentic. Keepin' it real.

**~*Oji_Flava*~** · 05-16-2006, 04:09 PM

As for Kit, she's not newly on the jingle scene.
She's been reppin' jingle before Jibby was a powwow diva on the who's who name listings.

**Jibby™** · 05-16-2006, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~*Oji_Flava*~

As for Kit, she's not newly on the jingle scene.
She's been reppin' jingle before Jibby was a powwow diva on the who's who name listings.

I stand corrected :)

Thanks for letting me know!

**Migiziwomen** · 05-16-2006, 06:04 PM

girl you crazy

lol i was like too funny "and another thing" to freaken funny! and then quoting your own post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jibby™

You essentially answered your own question upon indicating that it is a "competition" style dress. If this person is using this dress intending to compete against other women then traditonal teachings do not apply. And would be a waste of time.

If peeps are gonna keep exploiting the dress, then don't try and act all someways about it and apply only those aspects of dancing in anticipation that you will presumably or professedly increase your status as as authentic jingle dancer.

Giminadan Gagiginonshiwan ... MEEGWETCH!

tigger · 05-17-2006, 11:52 AM

ladies,
my friend says that she did ask the elder why and the elder told her that she wasn't sure, just what she had heard. as for me talking to her about it, i did not her this from the elder, just from my friend, and i heard it at 10pm. i wish i could have heard it sooner, so i could have talked to the person more and learned but it was not to be. thank you for all your help.

southernx_hunnie08 · 05-22-2006, 01:01 PM

about this...well you should have 365 cones..it does not matter how many rows this is prolly just something the elder thinks...alot of people have different opinions and alot dont even have 365 cones...but if she can fit that many then it would be better for her...plus to let you know competition dancers usually go for looks...and its not really traditional so however she wants her dress is how she should do it because she is the one who has to make the choice

05-15-2006, 11:30 AM	#1 (permalink)
tigger Pow Wow Committee Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: powwows.com Posts: 6,182	Question on how many rows??? i heard this past weekend from an elderly lady that you could only have 7 rows of jingles on your dress. this lady told a friend of mine this and my friend was concerned that she really messed up. can anyone help out. thanks. p.s her dress is a compitition style dress.

05-15-2006, 02:57 PM	#4 (permalink)
pretty_indian jingle dress dancer Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: manitoba canada Posts: 91	i believe that according to some ojibway teachings, there are supposed to be seven rows for the seven teachings with 365 jingles for the days of the year if you are doing traditional jingle. i think for contemporary you should be able to do what you want because is it not called contemporary for a reason? everyone's entitled to their own opinion. However i agree with Kiwehnzii, you should sit with the elder and learn about it even if your friend decides not to put seven rows on her dress. __________________ ~don't panic, eat bannok~

05-15-2006, 03:06 PM	#5 (permalink)
Migiziwomen AND SHE LIKES IT Join Date: May 2004 Location: IN THE HEARTS OF MANY Posts: 2,352	it did not surpise me to see at the end of your post that it is a comp dress. may i ask what you said to the Elder? your friend should really know more about this dress that she borrowed, ( and i mean in the sense that the dress belongs to my nation) WhoMe is right on, and as I see all the posts after say the same thing, so that is my advise also. it is to bad that you had this well of info at your fingertips and you did not dig. i hope you at least thanked her for her input. i am not going to get into the answer, you need to go talk to an elder, preferably a shinob elder. good luck __________________ *AYWAWAG ANISHINABEG IZH AAYAN WII WII DOOK AAGOZIYAN*

05-15-2006, 04:57 PM	#7 (permalink)
Jibby™ NDNBUNZ Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: BABYLON HATE MACHINE Posts: 2,094	jingle-ing Welp. See, the dress itself has been bassturdized by other nations and it shouldn't come as a great surprise that the teachings and/or history surrounding the dress is convoluted. Here's the thing. You have people out there perpetuating rumours and heresay to uphold the whole "romantic, noble Indian" image that is incessantly extended across America and even in Indian Country. I was never taught that your dress has to have 7 rows to represent the 7 teachings or 365 cones to represent every day of the year. I mean, even though the dress did originate in the post-colonalization era, our peeps traditions and adaptive strategies have always reflected the 4 seasons and not the Roman calendar. In my humble opinion, the most important teaching to know about the dress is it's origin and purpose. So long as one attempts to acquire the knowledge and demonstrates a genuine understanding of it's origins, and resists further convolusion, then I am cool with other Nations dancing the style. Not that I am the authority or anything - just trying to offer some advice. Like, Kiwehnzii said and MigizeWoman have said - it would be best to consult and Anishinabe elder to ascertain the appropriate wisdom in regards to the dress and dancing that particular style. __________________ Got percap? Last edited by Jibby™; 05-15-2006 at 05:11 PM. Reason: BOOYAH!

05-15-2006, 05:08 PM	#8 (permalink)
Jibby™ NDNBUNZ Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: BABYLON HATE MACHINE Posts: 2,094	and another thing ... You essentially answered your own question upon indicating that it is a "competition" style dress. If this person is using this dress intending to compete against other women then traditonal teachings do not apply. And would be a waste of time. If peeps are gonna keep exploiting the dress, then don't try and act all someways about it and apply only those aspects of dancing in anticipation that you will presumably or professedly increase your status as as authentic jingle dancer. Giminadan Gagiginonshiwan ... MEEGWETCH! __________________ Got percap?

05-16-2006, 04:09 PM	#10 (permalink)
*~Oji_Flava~* PowWows.com Addicts Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario Posts: 1,099	As for Kit, she's not newly on the jingle scene. She's been reppin' jingle before Jibby was a powwow diva on the who's who name listings.

05-17-2006, 11:52 AM	#13 (permalink)
tigger Pow Wow Committee Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: powwows.com Posts: 6,182	ladies, my friend says that she did ask the elder why and the elder told her that she wasn't sure, just what she had heard. as for me talking to her about it, i did not her this from the elder, just from my friend, and i heard it at 10pm. i wish i could have heard it sooner, so i could have talked to the person more and learned but it was not to be. thank you for all your help.