Should jingle competition be separated between traditional and contemporary? - Page 4

native_flutterby · 02-14-2006, 02:41 PM

should be like eyebrows keep em seperate lmao

Bling Blingin Sioux · 02-15-2006, 11:22 AM

I Think They Should Be Seperated...there Is A Big Difference Between Contemp And Traditional....your Either The One Or The Other....but Yea..it Would Be Nice To If Powwows Could Start Dividing These Two Categories...

DancingCreek · 07-30-2006, 11:17 AM

I'm from the South and here, it would be hard to have two catagories. At the PowWows I attend, there just aren't enough jinglers to seperate them into contempory and traditional.
Sometimes I'm asked to speak and when I am I'm honored to explain to the spectators what this dance is all about; the story of how the dress was given to the people, the medicine of the dress and it's healing power. Now, after reading this thread I will be even mored honored to go into a little more detail and explain the differences between the two styles.

How to dance jingle is a controversy in my family as well. I had no one to teach me and had to learn it all on my own. After I was called to the jingle dress I did so much research. I made lots of phone calls, I endlessly searched the net, (sorting through truth and myth) I sent e-mails, I bought DVD's and tapes. I spent my year doing all this, knowing that I wanted to dance old style to honor the ancestors and the dress.

Then it came time to make the dress. My MIL is the seamstress in our family so most of the dress is her decision. And how she designs and we make it will be how I wear it. My MIL likes design and flash, but she also likes traditional colors (no neon). We are now in the process of making a new dress.
Then my sons are always after me to "kick higher". And believe me they know my thoughts on this. And every time they tell me this they hear the story and the traditional ways.
So here I am, a traditional jingler, in a somewhat contempary dress, in a location where there aren't really enough jinglers to have two catagories.

I feel the important thing is to know the traditions and to continue to pass down knowledge to the children, other dancers and the powwow spectators. I remember at one certain PowWow I was the oldest jingler there and one teen took up with me. It was her first time dancing. I spent alot of time talking with her and making sure she knew the story of the dress. Not preacing to her - just talking and passing down what I knew.

After all, the PowWow is an social gathering, one that has evolved over the years and will continue to evolve.
Each tribe has their own way of doing things and through the powwow these traditions have mixed and mingled. Which is why you have memebers of different tribes dancing other tribes dances.
It is the responsibility of each tribe to keep the fires of their own ways lit.
It is the responsiblity of each indiviual dancer to pass down the traditions of their dance - weather it be from their tribe or not.

So as far as voting in this poll? I voted "I don't know" because in some instances you just can't seperate the two, but you can, no matter what style you dance, keep the knowledge of the dance passed down to future generations.

sookout sh'nob · 08-17-2006, 12:07 PM

If it's a contest for money, then it's not traditional anyhow.

Might as well keep em the same.

incognito · 08-27-2006, 02:23 AM

I don't see why it needs to be separated...people dance there own styles...It's what you feel inside and what you are taught about that dress...Jingle dress dancers shouldn't separate themselves from eachother...that can become very damaging....dance for yourselves and your people, not for recognition or money. Miigwetch!

dat1siouxchick · 09-13-2006, 09:35 PM

K, I think they should be seperated....I judge a lot but I dont like contemp. jingle at all....I use to compete and place in jingle all the time so I know what jingle is about....Contemp. is getting too out of control!!!Looks more like fancy shawl now and is dissappointing that no one is doing more about chastising girls/women who arent keeping it the wayit was meant to be...I agree times change but it is disrespectful the way jingle has changed.....just my oppinion.....and a lot of others who just wont say anything

**WocusWoman** · 09-14-2006, 02:00 AM

I just recently came to the conclusion that jingle dancing backwards, and doing what looks like the "moon walk" just looks plain silly. Not gonna name any names or point fingers, but I've seen two well known dancers doing that regularly in the past year or so. They should separate the old style for the contemporary, but I know that is not realistic, most contest powwows are small and cannot have that much payout, and divisions. I see way too many ladies doing what looks just like "fancy shawl" dancing. They need to remember, all the teens, and children learn from them and most often immitate what they see. BTW, my daughter will never be allowed to dance contemporary jingle.

**MayChe** · 03-16-2007, 10:40 AM

I agree. Some contemporary jinglers have gotten way out of control. I wish we could see a breakout of old style and contemp down this way, but most people here don't know what old style is.

WhoMe · 03-19-2007, 06:20 PM

Alot has to do with the budget of the powwow committee.

Sure it would be great to have all powwows have a contemporary and traditional in every category. It would be even better to have every category broken up into many age groups so everyone can make some big money!..... "in a perfect world" *L

What if the committee only has $300 for first place, $200 second place and $100 third place, in the jingle dress category?

Then would you want them to divide the money so that you could have a contemporary and a separate traditional jingle category?

Mato Winyan · 03-19-2007, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WocusWoman

I just recently came to the conclusion that jingle dancing backwards, and doing what looks like the "moon walk" just looks plain silly. Not gonna name any names or point fingers, but I've seen two well known dancers doing that regularly in the past year or so. They should separate the old style for the contemporary, but I know that is not realistic, most contest powwows are small and cannot have that much payout, and divisions. I see way too many ladies doing what looks just like "fancy shawl" dancing. They need to remember, all the teens, and children learn from them and most often immitate what they see. BTW, my daughter will never be allowed to dance contemporary jingle.

Couldn't agree more!

If it was MY powwow ........ and I had $600 and IF there were both style dancers...... I'd split it. There is NO WAY to put the two up against each other and be fair with most judges.

Matter of fact at MY powwow I'd probably do the same with all contests. Yeah......that's it. Split it. And no I wouldn't worry about some people not coming because of the low payout because that many more would come because they would have a chance.

PRINCESS04-05 · 03-31-2007, 01:42 AM

i agree completely that the catagories should be seperated but i kinda wanted to point out how the differences between the styles stands out during a side step. tradish seem to keep thier steps loww to the ground, or scrub style, but the contemps go so far up on thier toes they gain 3 inches. Also, one of my cousins dances contemp and when she sidesteps she adds her own fancy footwork....

anyways, i jujst wanted to point that out

...:D

kgirl7 · 03-31-2007, 03:39 PM

I don't think that they should necessarily be separated, there might not be enough dancers to do that, but i think that judges should know what the dance is traditionally supposed to look like, so those girls who dance it the way it's supposed to be danced get recognized and start placing. I also hope more and more jingle dancers learn more about the dance too. I really liked that NMAI video they have in the archives with the grandmas dancing. You can really see how much the dance has changed.

AndreaM · 10-25-2007, 02:07 PM

personally i definately think that the two should be separated. alot of the powwows that i have gone to now have a lot of traditional jingle dancers. plus you can tell the difference in the song style as well between the two. contemp song are alot faster and traditional song are a little slower. the separation of the categories would work well. there are some bomb contemp jinglers out there and some really good traditional jinglers out there. it makes it harder for the judges to decide.

View Poll Results: Should jingle competition be separated between the traditional and contemporary steps
YES!!!! They need to decide on what one to judge.	123	77.36%
Maybe... I kinda like it the way it is.	13	8.18%
NO!!! Keep it the way it is, I think it's all the same.	11	6.92%
I'm not sure.	12	7.55%
Voters: 159. You may not vote on this poll

02-14-2006, 02:41 PM	#61 (permalink)
native_flutterby I are an aunt Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: I am currently burried under tons of snow Posts: 241	should be like eyebrows keep em seperate lmao __________________ There can only be 2 moccasins on your feet at one time...however life has given me many pair...along with a needle, thread and really sharp teeth to cut with...lmao http://www.myspace.com/anty_tweeb

02-15-2006, 11:22 AM	#62 (permalink)
Bling Blingin Sioux ITZ ME ROSE YO Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: STANDING ROCK SIOUX TRIBE/SIOUX VALLEY DAKOTA NATION AND SISSETON WAHPETON..PURE SIOUX BABY...LOL Posts: 69	I Think They Should Be Seperated...there Is A Big Difference Between Contemp And Traditional....your Either The One Or The Other....but Yea..it Would Be Nice To If Powwows Could Start Dividing These Two Categories... __________________ >>><<<100% Wambdi Ska Win>>><<< You think I am a fool, but you are a greater fool than I am<<CHIEF SITTING BULL>>

07-30-2006, 11:17 AM	#63 (permalink)
DancingCreek Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 49	I'm from the South and here, it would be hard to have two catagories. At the PowWows I attend, there just aren't enough jinglers to seperate them into contempory and traditional. Sometimes I'm asked to speak and when I am I'm honored to explain to the spectators what this dance is all about; the story of how the dress was given to the people, the medicine of the dress and it's healing power. Now, after reading this thread I will be even mored honored to go into a little more detail and explain the differences between the two styles. How to dance jingle is a controversy in my family as well. I had no one to teach me and had to learn it all on my own. After I was called to the jingle dress I did so much research. I made lots of phone calls, I endlessly searched the net, (sorting through truth and myth) I sent e-mails, I bought DVD's and tapes. I spent my year doing all this, knowing that I wanted to dance old style to honor the ancestors and the dress. Then it came time to make the dress. My MIL is the seamstress in our family so most of the dress is her decision. And how she designs and we make it will be how I wear it. My MIL likes design and flash, but she also likes traditional colors (no neon). We are now in the process of making a new dress. Then my sons are always after me to "kick higher". And believe me they know my thoughts on this. And every time they tell me this they hear the story and the traditional ways. So here I am, a traditional jingler, in a somewhat contempary dress, in a location where there aren't really enough jinglers to have two catagories. I feel the important thing is to know the traditions and to continue to pass down knowledge to the children, other dancers and the powwow spectators. I remember at one certain PowWow I was the oldest jingler there and one teen took up with me. It was her first time dancing. I spent alot of time talking with her and making sure she knew the story of the dress. Not preacing to her - just talking and passing down what I knew. After all, the PowWow is an social gathering, one that has evolved over the years and will continue to evolve. Each tribe has their own way of doing things and through the powwow these traditions have mixed and mingled. Which is why you have memebers of different tribes dancing other tribes dances. It is the responsibility of each tribe to keep the fires of their own ways lit. It is the responsiblity of each indiviual dancer to pass down the traditions of their dance - weather it be from their tribe or not. So as far as voting in this poll? I voted "I don't know" because in some instances you just can't seperate the two, but you can, no matter what style you dance, keep the knowledge of the dance passed down to future generations. __________________ Like those who came before us and those that will follow; so shall we dance.

08-27-2006, 02:23 AM	#65 (permalink)
incognito Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 8	hmmm... I don't see why it needs to be separated...people dance there own styles...It's what you feel inside and what you are taught about that dress...Jingle dress dancers shouldn't separate themselves from eachother...that can become very damaging....dance for yourselves and your people, not for recognition or money. Miigwetch!

08-17-2006, 12:07 PM	#64 (permalink)
sookout sh'nob Boogie Monster Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 534	If it's a contest for money, then it's not traditional anyhow. Might as well keep em the same.

09-13-2006, 09:35 PM	#66 (permalink)
dat1siouxchick kewlest person ever!!! Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: NUNYA Posts: 11	K, I think they should be seperated....I judge a lot but I dont like contemp. jingle at all....I use to compete and place in jingle all the time so I know what jingle is about....Contemp. is getting too out of control!!!Looks more like fancy shawl now and is dissappointing that no one is doing more about chastising girls/women who arent keeping it the wayit was meant to be...I agree times change but it is disrespectful the way jingle has changed.....just my oppinion.....and a lot of others who just wont say anything

09-14-2006, 02:00 AM	#67 (permalink)
WocusWoman N8tiffUmatillaMAMA Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Interior Alaska Posts: 2,727	I just recently came to the conclusion that jingle dancing backwards, and doing what looks like the "moon walk" just looks plain silly. Not gonna name any names or point fingers, but I've seen two well known dancers doing that regularly in the past year or so. They should separate the old style for the contemporary, but I know that is not realistic, most contest powwows are small and cannot have that much payout, and divisions. I see way too many ladies doing what looks just like "fancy shawl" dancing. They need to remember, all the teens, and children learn from them and most often immitate what they see. BTW, my daughter will never be allowed to dance contemporary jingle.

03-16-2007, 10:40 AM	#68 (permalink)
MayChe Minglin' N Jinglin' Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Flo' Da Posts: 1,120	I agree. Some contemporary jinglers have gotten way out of control. I wish we could see a breakout of old style and contemp down this way, but most people here don't know what old style is. __________________ Check me out on MySpace: www.myspace.com/mayasbored **~If your success is not on your own terms, if it looks good to the world but does not feel good in your heart, it is not success at all. ~**

03-19-2007, 06:20 PM	#69 (permalink)
WhoMe PauWau Coordinator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Land of 370 Broken Treaties Posts: 5,555	Alot has to do with the budget of the powwow committee. Sure it would be great to have all powwows have a contemporary and traditional in every category. It would be even better to have every category broken up into many age groups so everyone can make some big money!..... "in a perfect world" *L What if the committee only has $300 for first place, $200 second place and $100 third place, in the jingle dress category? Then would you want them to divide the money so that you could have a contemporary and a separate traditional jingle category? __________________ "Today, recognizing and respecting the origins of powwow aids in our Cultural Survival. If enough people break the rules because they are not satisfied...."We will have no culture." WhoMe

03-31-2007, 01:42 AM	#71 (permalink)
PRINCESS04-05 ~smiles~ Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northern Ontario Posts: 248	i agree completely that the catagories should be seperated but i kinda wanted to point out how the differences between the styles stands out during a side step. tradish seem to keep thier steps loww to the ground, or scrub style, but the contemps go so far up on thier toes they gain 3 inches. Also, one of my cousins dances contemp and when she sidesteps she adds her own fancy footwork.... anyways, i jujst wanted to point that out ...:D

03-31-2007, 03:39 PM	#72 (permalink)
kgirl7 Hola! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: AZ Posts: 332	I don't think that they should necessarily be separated, there might not be enough dancers to do that, but i think that judges should know what the dance is traditionally supposed to look like, so those girls who dance it the way it's supposed to be danced get recognized and start placing. I also hope more and more jingle dancers learn more about the dance too. I really liked that NMAI video they have in the archives with the grandmas dancing. You can really see how much the dance has changed. __________________ Cariblanguage.org

10-25-2007, 02:07 PM	#73 (permalink)
AndreaM Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 4	contemp vs traditional personally i definately think that the two should be separated. alot of the powwows that i have gone to now have a lot of traditional jingle dancers. plus you can tell the difference in the song style as well between the two. contemp song are alot faster and traditional song are a little slower. the separation of the categories would work well. there are some bomb contemp jinglers out there and some really good traditional jinglers out there. it makes it harder for the judges to decide.

10-27-2007, 04:58 PM	#74 (permalink)
redberries Happy Feet Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 44