CREEpin NDN

Well I just had to put my thoughts in on this one. I agree that contemp and tradish should be separated at the bigger gatherings. The two styles are way different. However, contemporary jingle dress doesn't mean that you dance in circles or run around the circle like a fancy shawl dancer, it only means that you wear plumes and or carry a fan. I think that both are really distinctive versions of a pretty ace dance.

Just so people know.....old style does win many times its just that there are more contemporary dancers than old style. A perfect example is Denise One Star. She dances old style and wins quite a bit. So whatever style you dance just stick to that and be yourself instead of looking at what everybody else is doing.

Majii

I have actually seen a few jingle dress dancers dancing in circles and dancing backwards, in the opposite direction and steppin so high that the dress bounces high enough to see mid thigh. In my opinion, those dancers would be better off getting themselves a shawl.

I have seen many contemporary dancers that do have the fancy steps, but not as bad as the rare few I have just described. I generally dance old style. high steppin is too hard on the knees for me. I dance what I feel is right for me, not to try to follow the trends. The dresses I make is the way they want to be made. I've learn by the lessons they give me. If it isn't the right way, everything will go wrong in making the dress. If it goes the right way, everything just flows
I like to watch dancers as much as I like dancing. If I see a dancer dancing with the right purpose, It's a good feeling, especially with a good song, ;)

Siale

I definitely think that there should be separate categories for old styo and contemporary jingle...they are two totally different styles and I think that it should be taken into consideration the fact that old styo is different from the way many contemporary jingle dress dancers dance today. Both styles are off the hook and both should be recognized at da powwows, but even if they aren't, we know what's goin' on...

p.s. much love to some jingle queenz!!

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crowjinglebeads

From my experience of the Ashinabe (Ojibwey) the owners of the jingle dress,

I hear they look down on those who do not dance the proper way, traditional style jingle dress.

I learned it is not the way for the dancers to dance in full circles or dance backwards.

I try to follow what the Ashinabe (Ojibwey) want. I'm Crow and we also have our own style of dance. I would be really hurt if I seen people dancing the way they want instead of how it should be really done.

n8tivechick

crowjinglebeads, see i am in aanishnabe ojibway country here in MI..... and i know how you said that they frown on contemporary but you know what..... even the hard core nishnabes here i think don't frown on it... I dunno... all i want is the competition to be fair........

-Kelli

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ReneRose

I think that they should be separated. I was taught to dance the traditional way. I haven't danced for awhile, because I am overseas. I do not particularly like the contemporary way, because things like going backward, etc go against the whole point of the dress and what the dress was made for. Others can dance how they like, but for me it is not the right thing.

bonechief

Cool stuff here!
I've been asked to judge from time to time and been found judging some of the northern women's competition as well. I've always wondered about some differences within this category. It just reinforces what I decided back then.

The way I was judging all alone was the "old style" way during these competition. I guess what caught my eye mostly was just the dancers not using fans, but rather their hands during the honor beats. Whereas, some contemps had huge fans and would begin a slow wave just before the honor beats. It was more scripted to me, whereas the old style just looked more natural.

As in anything else, I prefer to see things remain it was intended.

ALTHOUGH!, some of the contemp outfits are just tha BOMB!

Smeshigaud

I only read a few of these replies and never really started at the beginning but I too think that traditional old style jingle and contempory be separate categories. I guess I can say I am one of the old school girls :p, When I was a teenager and I was dancing, I used to think that I wasn't good enough or even a real jingle dress dancer because I didn't have a big eagle feather fan or even a plume. But now that I'm older I really don't care. As one of the other repliers had put, it's hard on the knees to do all those fancy moves, I like to try them out sometimes but I like to do straight style better. I think people, not Native people but people in general should be reminded that there are 2 styles and be able to tell the difference between the two. It's nice to have applique and tons of beadwork for your dresses and to look great but as it was nicely put, it isn't how the dresses look, it's how you dance, proudly and knowingly. I remember growing up and being told how sacred and honored one was to become a jingledress dancer. It wasn't something you could just decide on. Now everywhere you look at pow-wows there are more jingledress dancers than any other dancers it seems. Maybe that is why I have lost my way when it comes to dancing...but that is my 2 cents worth for today and this is a good topic to discuss!

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CREEpin NDN

I have seen many jingle dress dancers dance in circles and make those high steppin fancy dance moves but thats not jingle dress dancing. They should leave that to the fancy shawl ladies. Just because a lady carries a fan, wears plumes, and does a lil footwork doesn't mean that she will be looked down upon by people, Anishnabes in particular. Neebing Whiteye (sp?), Melody White, and Lisa Lavallee all come from that part of the country and dance pretty contemp and they aren't looked down on. They're looked at as really good dancers although they're contemporary b/c they don't take it to the "fancy dance" level.

NDN Princess 2001

I think they should be separated too. It is hard for the oldstyle to be noticed sometimes with all the flash and dazzle that the others show. It is too bad too, many great dancers can get overlooked.

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Beaded_mocs

i think it should be seperated. no hands down. so both categories have a chance of winning and no dancer gets looked down cause of there style;)

old style rocks!:)

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southernstyle

This is southernstyles girllfriend aka bling_bling_jingle_diva, and heres what I think. I do agree with those that say "yes jingle should be seperated into two diffrent styles" however I disagree with those that say " one style is more favored than the other". Let's face it, it all depends where you travel to, who's judging and who your competing against. I am a contemp. Jingle dancer (used to be fancy shawl witch is completly different than contemp jingle, I just wanted to add) and sometimes I place higher than the old style dancers and sometimes they place higher than me. when I travel down south I feel I can't dance fancy enough and my dresses aren't fancy enough but yet when I travel up north my dresses and dancing is just too fancy. Now I have friends both down south and up north that love both styles and agree that when they are seperated they are both beautifull contests . when I go up north and the style isn't seperated all my friends tell me " don't dance fancy, don't dance backwards, don't do this, don't do that. And when I go down south my friends are all " kick your legs up , dance fancier". And I'm just so sick of having to change the way I dance to fit in where I go. But it doesn't always depend on where you go mostly it depends on the judges and how they feel, if they like old style then yeah they are going to place all old style dancers and if they like contemp. of course they are going to pick contemp. dancers and that just isn't fair.I do know some elders and traditionalist that are in a way sickened by contemp, they say its not jingle dress dancing and that we shouldn't dance that way in that dress.And sometimes I agree but times have changed, I want to dance how I want to and I don't want people to be sickened or dissapointed by my descision to dance contemp. I know there are so many contemp dancers that obviously feel the same, after all why should anyone complain about contemporary jingle dress dancers not being traditional when, when it really comes down to it we are all competing in a contest for cash prizes at a powwow, now whats traditionall about that? Oh yeah one more thing, what I really don't get is why some old style dancers wear sequined material dresses or rinestones , hhhmmm now that doesn't seem very oldstyle to me.

native_jingle2001

These are my thoughts on jingle dancing..i learned to make my jingles sound in time with the drum so it is very hard for me to change steps and be fancy. i like the plain look..but sequins are okay..on some old style dresses they put sequins on their dresses. I remember my grandmother never let me touch her dress...! so it has been around our area for a long time...north minnesota...but the style has evolved with the women changing the dress to be noticed...i think it is all good..i am respectful toward others when they dance because it should come from the spirit.

native_flutterby

Heres my .02 cents, scents, lol Heres what i know of the hand raising, if a woman was givin asema (ah say mah) and they were a jingler they were to raise their hand at the honor beat, or if they were miday' during the healing song they were to raise their hand, at no other time were they to raise their hand, other than for healing of the person they had recieved tobacco from, the healing can be done to a specified song and while dancing the thought of that person getting better must be in your mind, when i dance for someone i have no thought in my head just the feeling of love, pure love it's a great feeling, i dance the old style, contemp once in awhile when i feel goofy and like raising a few eyebrows...i was taught not to eat, nor walk around in the dress. also i was only allowed to step outside the circle to go potty, I dance in my dress at Various drum ceremonies where they give me tobacco for someone for the next dance (drum ceremonie) they had also givin me some to go to Hinckley, to show people how to the dress was done in a public setting, when dancing you keep a light heart, you keep in mind that creator loves you. you keep in mind that you are human. i know my great grandmother would get tired after half the night was over, and so she'd get a little nuts by doing a fancy step or two, yet never going off beat to keep herself going :D . she kept going because life didnt stop, she didnt want life to stop for the person she was dancing for. oh yeah, after recieving that asema you dance to four songs and you dance every one of those four songs with all your heart. when you dance with your heart and soul it shows. as for the dress itself, it was never touched by anyone else other than the person that the dress was worn by. but now we dont see that, and in these days it might be still like that in little pockets of indian country, but will we ever really win? yes, in the eyes of the creator we are his best dancers so it doesnt matter if us old tymers win or not, even though i'm only in my 20's... i think that might be a little more than .02 cents! lmao

Harold

Very good words, flutterby. Miigwetch.

~*DopeLilMama*~

dude I just figured out who you are!!lmao...you guys gotta see this girl dance...she tears it up..:D anyways..the two should totally be separated...i've seen some contemp that look no different than fancy dancers..actually i don't think those ones are that good...then there's the contemp that are really graceful & everything but they're so different from old style because their steps are so fancy...then i really hate when there's a girl who's dancing old