365 cones: Fact or Urban Legend?

WhoMe · 07-09-2004, 12:40 PM

The jingle dress has been in existence, at least, since the late 1800's. It is part of Anishinabe culture and history.

There are now "several" stories of how and where it originated. Recent accounts have added "there are 365 cones on each dress, to represent the 365 days of the year."

Hmmmmm?

I have a lot of skeptism about this. I have heard the origin story of the medicine dress by an elder of the "ogitchidaa ikwe." In her version, she shared with me that the original jingles WERE NOT METAL CONES but made of another material found in the Lake of the Woods region (I don't think, I should share this ceremonial material on the internet).

Later in the evolution, metal cones of various sizes were used to symbolically represent the original material. I have seen pictures of jingle dresses at the turn of the 20th century and it looks like the metal cones ranged in size from one inch tighly roled, up to the size they are today - all included on a single dress. Some dress were heavy laden with cones, some weren't.

Because women are different sizes and heights, I have observed modern jingle dresses with more or less than 365 cones.

Is the 365 days a year story real? Or is it something that is popular today to help make the story more interesting?

**WocusWoman** · 07-09-2004, 05:53 PM

I'd like answers to this also. My brother is collecting and rolling his coppenhagen lids for me.

quicksilverwade · 07-09-2004, 07:41 PM

Through oral traditions we are told what is right. I heard about this topic through oral traditions and I guess I can only pass this on through private conversations but since I'm not an expert or an elder, I'll not say anymore.

**ojibwaysweetie** · 07-09-2004, 07:51 PM

......Im gettin tired of sharin my stuff on here.

quicksilverwade · 07-09-2004, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ojibwaysweetie

......Im gettin tired of sharin my stuff on here.

Ojibwaysweetie: You've got the right stuff. Copenhagen, Redwood, McPherson or Campbells?

**ojibwaysweetie** · 07-09-2004, 08:03 PM

Redwood first

Cogenhagen second

all the rest can wait

LOL

Fancy Maiden · 07-09-2004, 08:22 PM

i have heard about using 370 cones..... 365 for the days, 4 for the directions, and one hidden. But thats only what i have heard..... Good question though WhoMe i would like to know some answers too.

07-10-2004, 10:31 AM

i say its a FACT...think about it we pray 365 days a year..and each cone represents 1 day of prayer that we've added on to make our complete dress...hense its a healing dress...

07-10-2004, 10:36 AM

but also different nations have different ways of how many cones one should have on the jingle dress so its more like consult your elder deal.... for myself its a fact for 365...

**ojibwaysweetie** · 07-10-2004, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hidatsawmn26

i say its a FACT...think about it we pray 365 days a year..and each cone represents 1 day of prayer that we've added on to make our complete dress...hense its a healing dress...

The FACT is........the way my Ojibway Ogitchidakwes say it is......that is the way it is. And 365 cones is not a fact. I can tell you that for a FACT.

**ojibwaysweetie** · 07-10-2004, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hidatsawmn26

but also different nations have different ways of how many cones one should have on the jingle dress so its more like consult your elder deal.... for myself its a fact for 365...

You say different nations have different ways of how many cones one SHOULD have on the dress............well.......those different nations do not really know, for the simple FACT that the dress does not truly belong to them. Consult your elder deal?...are these elders you are consulting Ojbway Elder Women who know history and facts about our dress, to those that it is a way of life?

I really don't like much the way you are always ready to post your so-called Knowledge about our Dress here, when the fact is you are not even Anishnabe. You post your postings here like you know all about our Dress through and through. Why do you do that? Sit back, be secondary, be respectful to us.... to the Nation that are the rightful owners ....allow the Anishnabe Jingle Dress dancers to post here. And if they take their time in posting, then be patient.

**Kakeeya** · 07-10-2004, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ojibwaysweetie

You say different nations have different ways of how many cones one SHOULD have on the dress............well.......those different nations do not really know, for the simple FACT that the dress does not truly belong to them. Consult your elder deal?...are these elders you are consulting Ojbway Elder Women who know facts about our dress?

I really don't like much the way you are always ready to post your so-called Knowledge about our Dress here, when the fact is you are not even Anishnabe. You post your postings here like you know all about our Dress through and through. Why do you do that? Sit back, be secondary, be respectful to us.... to the Nation that are the rightful owners ....allow the Anishnabe Jingle Dress dancers to post here. And if they take their time in posting, then be patient.

:Thumbs

**Kakeeya** · 07-10-2004, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ojibwaysweetie

......Im gettin tired of sharin my stuff on here.

I totally agree with you Sister. I've been reading some of the stuff that is posted about your Medicine dresses on here and seems as if the dress is being dissected and examined. Seems very inappropriate and I don't blame you for not wanting to share anymore as you and other Anishinaabe have shared a lot from your hearts already. But I am also glad that you are here to say how you feel about other Nations using the dress and how they must conduct themselves in a respectful and reverent manner when borrowing the dress and dance.

**ojibwaysweetie** · 07-10-2004, 02:17 PM

Howah! I got a bad rep for my post here..and of course, they don't put their name to the rep. And the note they left on my bad rep was: "you said you were tired of sharing my stuff on here".........well.......I am!....near as tired as reading "stuff" about our dress that is just attitudinal hearsay.

missy · 07-10-2004, 02:19 PM

Yaaaaaaaay Ojibsweetie

07-09-2004, 12:40 PM	#1 (permalink)
WhoMe PauWau Coordinator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Land of 370 Broken Treaties Posts: 5,555	365 cones: Fact or Urban Legend? The jingle dress has been in existence, at least, since the late 1800's. It is part of Anishinabe culture and history. There are now "several" stories of how and where it originated. Recent accounts have added "there are 365 cones on each dress, to represent the 365 days of the year." Hmmmmm? I have a lot of skeptism about this. I have heard the origin story of the medicine dress by an elder of the "ogitchidaa ikwe." In her version, she shared with me that the original jingles WERE NOT METAL CONES but made of another material found in the Lake of the Woods region (I don't think, I should share this ceremonial material on the internet). Later in the evolution, metal cones of various sizes were used to symbolically represent the original material. I have seen pictures of jingle dresses at the turn of the 20th century and it looks like the metal cones ranged in size from one inch tighly roled, up to the size they are today - all included on a single dress. Some dress were heavy laden with cones, some weren't. Because women are different sizes and heights, I have observed modern jingle dresses with more or less than 365 cones. Is the 365 days a year story real? Or is it something that is popular today to help make the story more interesting? __________________ "Today, recognizing and respecting the origins of powwow aids in our Cultural Survival. If enough people break the rules because they are not satisfied...."We will have no culture." WhoMe

07-09-2004, 07:41 PM	#3 (permalink)
quicksilverwade Banned Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: South of the Deadly San Andreas Fault Posts: 1,555	Through oral traditions we are told what is right. I heard about this topic through oral traditions and I guess I can only pass this on through private conversations but since I'm not an expert or an elder, I'll not say anymore. Last edited by quicksilverwade; 07-09-2004 at 08:46 PM.

07-09-2004, 07:51 PM	#4 (permalink)
ojibwaysweetie PowWows.com Addicts Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Heart of the Great Lakes, Ontario Canada Posts: 4,981	......Im gettin tired of sharin my stuff on here. __________________ "Gaa wiin daa-aangoshkigaazo ahaw enaabiyaan gaa-inaabid"

07-09-2004, 08:03 PM	#6 (permalink)
ojibwaysweetie PowWows.com Addicts Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Heart of the Great Lakes, Ontario Canada Posts: 4,981	Redwood first Cogenhagen second all the rest can wait LOL __________________ "Gaa wiin daa-aangoshkigaazo ahaw enaabiyaan gaa-inaabid"

07-09-2004, 08:22 PM	#7 (permalink)
Fancy Maiden Junior Dancer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Hampton, VA Posts: 180	i have heard about using 370 cones..... 365 for the days, 4 for the directions, and one hidden. But thats only what i have heard..... Good question though WhoMe i would like to know some answers too. __________________ Why we dance......... we dance to pray, we pray to heal, we heal to live, we live to dance!

07-09-2004, 05:53 PM	#2 (permalink)
WocusWoman N8tiffUmatillaMAMA Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Interior Alaska Posts: 2,727	I'd like answers to this also. My brother is collecting and rolling his coppenhagen lids for me.

07-10-2004, 10:31 AM	#8 (permalink)
hidatsawmn26 Guest Posts: n/a	i say its a FACT...think about it we pray 365 days a year..and each cone represents 1 day of prayer that we've added on to make our complete dress...hense its a healing dress...

07-10-2004, 10:36 AM	#9 (permalink)
hidatsawmn26 Guest Posts: n/a	but also different nations have different ways of how many cones one should have on the jingle dress so its more like consult your elder deal.... for myself its a fact for 365...

07-10-2004, 02:17 PM	#14 (permalink)
ojibwaysweetie PowWows.com Addicts Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Heart of the Great Lakes, Ontario Canada Posts: 4,981	Howah! I got a bad rep for my post here..and of course, they don't put their name to the rep. And the note they left on my bad rep was: "you said you were tired of sharing my stuff on here".........well.......I am!....near as tired as reading "stuff" about our dress that is just attitudinal hearsay. __________________ "Gaa wiin daa-aangoshkigaazo ahaw enaabiyaan gaa-inaabid" Last edited by ojibwaysweetie; 07-10-2004 at 04:26 PM.

07-10-2004, 02:19 PM	#15 (permalink)
missy hello Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 67	Yaaaaaaaay Ojibsweetie