How mant rolls of jingles?

southern_apache_girl · 02-06-2002, 04:47 PM

Okay I was just wondering how many rolls of jingles are put on dresses? I've seen girls mostly with seven and some with more. Whats the deal seven or more?

Just wonderin'

nativewife · 02-06-2002, 04:52 PM

The first time i saw any reference to how many rows go on a jingle dress was in a pow wow program from new years eve. It mentioned that there are supposed to be 7 rows, one for each of the teachings. I haven't heard of any specific 'rule' outside of that. I've seen more rows than 7, and less than 7.

don't know how many rows the first jingle dancer dreamed of.

Hope someone else posts an answer too. I'm interested in knowing.

:Wave

luvlumbee · 02-06-2002, 08:25 PM

The jingle dress dance is considered a healing dance. There are a few different stories that people tell. The jingle dress dance is looked upon as being traditional due to the story of the dance. The history of the dance speaks of a young woman who became ill. While her parents slept the Creator gave them a vision. He told them to design a certain dress and to teach the girl to move in a particular fashion. Once the girl did so, she would be healed. The couple awoke and did just as the Creator instructed them to do. As the young woman began to dance, she placed her hand on her side where it caused her pain. The dance cured her and from that time on it has been considered a healing dance where it creates a good feeling. The jingle dress dance comes from the Mille Lacs Band of the Ojibway tribe. I have heard a couple of different stories and this is one that the way I explain it to my children so that they can understand the true meaning of the dance.. As far as you question we wear 365 jingles, each representing a day of the year and 7 rows for seven days in a week. Some people may prefer to make thier dress lighter or heavier depending on how they want their dress.

nativewife · 02-07-2002, 10:41 AM

Here is another version of the same story. This is the way I hear it at many of the powwows in Michigan. I have heard it the other way, tho and with other variations.

Many years ago, there was a tribe who's crops started to dry up. All of Mother Earth was getting sick. The animals were getting sick, some were dying. The people were getting sick, hungry from lack of food. One of the young Ojibwe girls prayed to the Creator to end this sickness and heal Mother Earth. One night, this young girl had a dream. She dreamed of herself dancing in a way no one had ever seen before in a dress that no had ever seen before. When she woke, she told her grandmother of her dream. Her grandmother asked her to describe the dress, and then she helped her make it. When they rolled the cones for the dress, they put a prayer into each one. At the next gathering after the dress was completed, this girl danced in her dress, waving the prayers in all directions and to the creator with her fan. Mother Earth, the animals, the crops, and the whole tribe began to heal and were stronger than before.

I know that dancers wear 365 cones on their dresses. Children jingle dancers normally wear less, because of weight of the dress.

thanks for the info, luv.

**MayChe** · 02-07-2002, 11:54 AM

yeah, I've seen as many as 10 rows and as few as 2 rows for adults.

:Flash

luvlumbee · 02-07-2002, 01:43 PM

Sorry !!! Never heard of that story. Maybe if you do some research you will find the the stories of the jingle dress dance are similar to the one I was describing. I have been a jingle dress dancer for a very long time and I received my information as I was growing up from a very highly respected elder and I am fairly confident of the information that I have provided.

:(
:) 365 cones for each day of the year and 7 rows for 7 days of the week. And yes, the amount varies depending on how you want your dress. Only thing that really matters is that you as a jingle dress dancer should know this information regardless of how many cones and how many rows you have on your dress.
:)

;) :Chatter

Singing Otter · 02-07-2002, 02:48 PM

Sorry I'm gettin in on this a little late. Been kinda busy around here.

The one thing an elder told me, "You'll hear a lot of different stories depending on where you're from and who you're talking to". It's the truth... Out of all the stories I've heard, the main constants are the healing, the numbers, and the manner in which it was given.

365 jingles (days)and/or 7 rows (direction/teachings)

I think that your size matters when you go into designing your dress and placing your jingles. With a bigger, thicker, sister like myself :p I managed to have seven full rows.

Singing Otter · 02-07-2002, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by luvlumbee
Only thing that really matters is that you as a jingle dress dancer should know this information regardless of how many cones and how many rows you have on your dress.
:) ;) :Chatter

Yup

nativewife · 02-07-2002, 05:04 PM

I will look into that, thanks luv.

I wasn't disagreeing with you, just sharing the version that I keep hearing from MCs around here.

I would like my daughter to know the most accurate story, tho, especially if she is to share that story with others.

thanks.

JingleBelle · 02-07-2002, 07:12 PM

Hi guys,

This topic always slightly irritates me because the information is incorrect. This dance is an Ojibwe dance and if you ever get the chance, the Minnesota Historical Society has pictures of jingle dress dancers from the early 1900's it obvious from these pictures that there are not 7 rows and there are definitely not 365 jingles on each dress. There is also a picture on the Whitefish Bay Jingle Dress Songs tape that shows 3 women in Jingle dresses that was taken long ago. The 365 jingles idea (myth) has just been circulating for the last few years and the seven rows myth is even more recent. I hope you all understand that this dress has a true origin and is still used in a sacred way by the Ojibwe people in Minnesota and Manitoba where the dress originated. The Jingle Dress is also describes in a book that was written in the early 1900's by Carrie _____? who lived in the area and wrote about the Ojibwe. I'm sorry I can't remember her name but I think that "Ojibwe Customs" is the actual title of the book. I don't mean to offend anyone or hurt any feelings but I do believe that if you are going to dance jingle or any other style that you should respect the true origin and beliefs of that style. Don't just dress up in a dress and say that this is what my tribe believes so this is what I am going to do.

In peace,

JingleBelle

luvlumbee · 02-07-2002, 10:14 PM

Like I said you will hear different stories !!!!!!

**Kiwehnzii** · 02-07-2002, 11:45 PM

I agree with Jingle Belle. Sorry about the one liner answer. I know many Anishinaabe qua. They pretty much agree on what Jingle Belle sez.

Czechy · 02-08-2002, 11:03 AM

Carrie Densmore is the author of the book on Chippewa customs.
I think she also wrote a large volume on their music as well.

The early dresses that JingleBelle mentions look a bit different than the modern dresses we have today. The cones are smaller and narrower and there are fewer rows of them. You will also find these dresses among early photos of the eastern Dakota. I've also seen a circa 1900 photo of a Shoshone lady with a similar dress. Makes me wonder just how early the dress and dance was spread to other tribes.

I learned about jingle dancing in Minnesota and Wisconsin and have to admit that I've never heard the version of the story nativewife has heard. Must just be a "Michigan thing"! :)

02-06-2002, 04:47 PM	#1 (permalink)
southern_apache_girl Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 20	How many rolls of jingles? Okay I was just wondering how many rolls of jingles are put on dresses? I've seen girls mostly with seven and some with more. Whats the deal seven or more? Just wonderin' Last edited by southern_apache_girl; 02-07-2002 at 11:24 AM.

02-06-2002, 04:52 PM	#2 (permalink)
nativewife Someone who's posted alot Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: michigan Posts: 497	seven... The first time i saw any reference to how many rows go on a jingle dress was in a pow wow program from new years eve. It mentioned that there are supposed to be 7 rows, one for each of the teachings. I haven't heard of any specific 'rule' outside of that. I've seen more rows than 7, and less than 7. don't know how many rows the first jingle dancer dreamed of. Hope someone else posts an answer too. I'm interested in knowing. :Wave __________________ I am who I am. No more, no less. Last edited by nativewife; 02-06-2002 at 04:55 PM.

02-06-2002, 08:25 PM	#3 (permalink)
luvlumbee Junior Dancer Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Baltimore Posts: 234	how many rows of jingles The jingle dress dance is considered a healing dance. There are a few different stories that people tell. The jingle dress dance is looked upon as being traditional due to the story of the dance. The history of the dance speaks of a young woman who became ill. While her parents slept the Creator gave them a vision. He told them to design a certain dress and to teach the girl to move in a particular fashion. Once the girl did so, she would be healed. The couple awoke and did just as the Creator instructed them to do. As the young woman began to dance, she placed her hand on her side where it caused her pain. The dance cured her and from that time on it has been considered a healing dance where it creates a good feeling. The jingle dress dance comes from the Mille Lacs Band of the Ojibway tribe. I have heard a couple of different stories and this is one that the way I explain it to my children so that they can understand the true meaning of the dance.. As far as you question we wear 365 jingles, each representing a day of the year and 7 rows for seven days in a week. Some people may prefer to make thier dress lighter or heavier depending on how they want their dress. __________________ Life is more than what we see...

02-07-2002, 10:41 AM	#4 (permalink)
nativewife Someone who's posted alot Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: michigan Posts: 497	... nother version Here is another version of the same story. This is the way I hear it at many of the powwows in Michigan. I have heard it the other way, tho and with other variations. Many years ago, there was a tribe who's crops started to dry up. All of Mother Earth was getting sick. The animals were getting sick, some were dying. The people were getting sick, hungry from lack of food. One of the young Ojibwe girls prayed to the Creator to end this sickness and heal Mother Earth. One night, this young girl had a dream. She dreamed of herself dancing in a way no one had ever seen before in a dress that no had ever seen before. When she woke, she told her grandmother of her dream. Her grandmother asked her to describe the dress, and then she helped her make it. When they rolled the cones for the dress, they put a prayer into each one. At the next gathering after the dress was completed, this girl danced in her dress, waving the prayers in all directions and to the creator with her fan. Mother Earth, the animals, the crops, and the whole tribe began to heal and were stronger than before. I know that dancers wear 365 cones on their dresses. Children jingle dancers normally wear less, because of weight of the dress. thanks for the info, luv. __________________ I am who I am. No more, no less.

02-07-2002, 11:54 AM	#5 (permalink)
MayChe Minglin' N Jinglin' Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Flo' Da Posts: 1,095	yeah, I've seen as many as 10 rows and as few as 2 rows for adults. :Flash __________________ Check me out on MySpace: www.myspace.com/mayasbored **~If your success is not on your own terms, if it looks good to the world but does not feel good in your heart, it is not success at all. ~**

02-07-2002, 01:43 PM	#6 (permalink)
luvlumbee Junior Dancer Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Baltimore Posts: 234	how many rows of jingles Sorry !!! Never heard of that story. Maybe if you do some research you will find the the stories of the jingle dress dance are similar to the one I was describing. I have been a jingle dress dancer for a very long time and I received my information as I was growing up from a very highly respected elder and I am fairly confident of the information that I have provided. :( :) 365 cones for each day of the year and 7 rows for 7 days of the week. And yes, the amount varies depending on how you want your dress. Only thing that really matters is that you as a jingle dress dancer should know this information regardless of how many cones and how many rows you have on your dress. :) ;) :Chatter __________________ Life is more than what we see...

02-07-2002, 02:48 PM	#7 (permalink)
Singing Otter Gotz ta be me! Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,387 Blog Entries: 1	Sorry I'm gettin in on this a little late. Been kinda busy around here. The one thing an elder told me, "You'll hear a lot of different stories depending on where you're from and who you're talking to". It's the truth... Out of all the stories I've heard, the main constants are the healing, the numbers, and the manner in which it was given. 365 jingles (days)and/or 7 rows (direction/teachings) I think that your size matters when you go into designing your dress and placing your jingles. With a bigger, thicker, sister like myself :p I managed to have seven full rows.

02-07-2002, 05:04 PM	#9 (permalink)
nativewife Someone who's posted alot Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: michigan Posts: 497	I will look into that, thanks luv. I wasn't disagreeing with you, just sharing the version that I keep hearing from MCs around here. I would like my daughter to know the most accurate story, tho, especially if she is to share that story with others. thanks. __________________ I am who I am. No more, no less.

02-07-2002, 07:12 PM	#10 (permalink)
JingleBelle Jingle Dress Retiree Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 77	Hi guys, This topic always slightly irritates me because the information is incorrect. This dance is an Ojibwe dance and if you ever get the chance, the Minnesota Historical Society has pictures of jingle dress dancers from the early 1900's it obvious from these pictures that there are not 7 rows and there are definitely not 365 jingles on each dress. There is also a picture on the Whitefish Bay Jingle Dress Songs tape that shows 3 women in Jingle dresses that was taken long ago. The 365 jingles idea (myth) has just been circulating for the last few years and the seven rows myth is even more recent. I hope you all understand that this dress has a true origin and is still used in a sacred way by the Ojibwe people in Minnesota and Manitoba where the dress originated. The Jingle Dress is also describes in a book that was written in the early 1900's by Carrie _____? who lived in the area and wrote about the Ojibwe. I'm sorry I can't remember her name but I think that "Ojibwe Customs" is the actual title of the book. I don't mean to offend anyone or hurt any feelings but I do believe that if you are going to dance jingle or any other style that you should respect the true origin and beliefs of that style. Don't just dress up in a dress and say that this is what my tribe believes so this is what I am going to do. In peace, JingleBelle

02-07-2002, 10:14 PM	#11 (permalink)
luvlumbee Junior Dancer Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Baltimore Posts: 234	how many rows of jingles Like I said you will hear different stories !!!!!! __________________ Life is more than what we see...

02-07-2002, 11:45 PM	#12 (permalink)
Kiwehnzii Oldfart Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 2,853	I agree with Jingle Belle. Sorry about the one liner answer. I know many Anishinaabe qua. They pretty much agree on what Jingle Belle sez.

02-08-2002, 11:03 AM	#13 (permalink)
Czechy wrapped in ribbonwork! Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Here....for now Posts: 749	Carrie Densmore is the author of the book on Chippewa customs. I think she also wrote a large volume on their music as well. The early dresses that JingleBelle mentions look a bit different than the modern dresses we have today. The cones are smaller and narrower and there are fewer rows of them. You will also find these dresses among early photos of the eastern Dakota. I've also seen a circa 1900 photo of a Shoshone lady with a similar dress. Makes me wonder just how early the dress and dance was spread to other tribes. I learned about jingle dancing in Minnesota and Wisconsin and have to admit that I've never heard the version of the story nativewife has heard. Must just be a "Michigan thing"! :)