Kwe Question? - Page 4

**ojibwaysweetie** · 05-05-2004, 10:13 AM

Ojibway elders believe in the healing of the dress. If they ask you to dance you better get up and dance! It is not wrong to fulfill an elders request.

sookout sh'nob · 05-05-2004, 11:06 AM

I'd like to add that any traditional drum keeper worth his salt knows enough about things to be able to chime in when things are wrong - such as with young ladies and whatnot. You can usually tell the ones who know for sure what they are doing by the thunder staves (bent/curled/looped posts) at each corner of thier drum. Still, even in that situation, it's nice to have an older lady on hand that knows a thing or two - especially if she knows it the same way you do.

Even though it is towards the center of things, I'd say the dress is only a fraction of what is going on here.

ganabaj niwii-ikidow meenawaa gomaa baamaa.

heheheheheh :D

WhoMe · 05-06-2004, 05:01 PM

In a recent conversation with a pws.com moderator, the question came up,"Is the jingle dress worn in jingle dress ceremonies different from the neon colored, multi designed jingle dresses worn in a contest?"

My assumption would be yes.

What to you Kwe think?

**ojibwaysweetie** · 05-06-2004, 07:28 PM

Yes.

Kiwehnzii said something about that in an earlier post. There are jingle dresses that are traditional and worn in the ceremonies. Very different from the flashy, neon ones lol.

WhoMe · 05-10-2004, 10:43 AM

As more tribes begin to adapt the jingle dress dance for competition purposes, champions begin to emerge.

Would it offend the Anishinabe if there was a major powwow and no Anishinabe placed even though they were well represented?

What do you think of contemporary non Anishinabe dancers, placing higher than Anishinabe Ikwe's in jingle dress contests?

**ojibwaysweetie** · 05-10-2004, 03:05 PM

It happens all the time. Personally it bothers me to some extent.. I don't know how the other kwes feel here. The thing that keeps me happy is knowing that we are the true people of the jingle dress, and only Anishnabe kwe, when done properly has the true spirit of healing within the dress. The contemp dresses are used for contest and I said before somewhere, most probably those contemp dresses are not properly taken care of before wearing, I mean, how can they when they are not anishnabe, right? How would a dancer lets say from new mexico for example know what the proper protocol is before wearing it? They would not know, therefore the dress is lacking the spirit of healing. Makes sense? I'm trying to type quickly here as I am with auditors this afternoon *LOL*. :p

**Roobz** · 05-10-2004, 03:55 PM

.

native_flutterby · 05-10-2004, 04:16 PM

hmmm...i guess after reading all of those replies and what not...and even before i read them i've come to this thought, and its just a thought, but i think there was a reason our people gave our dresses away, if worn in the proper fashion and with tobacco it becomes a healing dress, to be worn as that a healing dress to be worn by someone who needs healing. I know that when i'm dancing i cant help but smile, it feels good to have that attachment to god. and thats what i feel when i dance, there are songs where i dont even remember how i dance or even remember stopping. When the dress is used properly there is a feeling of love and your on air. but then again if a dress is just a dress for looks then thats the feeling that person will give off and how they will look when dancing. I dunno its kind of hard to explain...anyhow i guess it comes down to the dress itself it came from the creator as a way of healing, laughter is said to be a kind of healing and thats what i do...I will act silly to get a smile, i will also be serious when i need to be. as for the kits...i dunno i could see that as a way to learn to make a dress, but there wont be any feeling in it, no real spirit. As for my dresses my mother makes them, I could make my own but i chose not to, for she puts love into it and that just pours out when i dance. anyhow, when our ancestors gave our dress to other tribes it was a sign of good faith, a goodwill gesture in hopes that the story and in hopes they too would be able to atain the love and the healing power that creator had shown us, just as the lakota had given us the soldier drums as a sign of goodwill and goodfaith. ummm i think thats what i was thinking, if not i'll be back to edit.

**Roobz** · 05-10-2004, 06:59 PM

.

**ojibwaysweetie** · 05-11-2004, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruby 2sday

I agree with you Ojibwaysweetie. What about when they have the old style jingle categories/specials and the Ojibs get shut out. But I think in that case it's the judges who haven't been to Ojib country to see real old style like at tradish powwows. It kind of bugs me too but not enough for me to get all mad and angry about it. And some of those ladies of other tribes can old style pretty good.

Hinckley is having that category this year and I'm curious to see how that's going to go. The old style sidestep special is good to watch there,Tarah J rippin it up,havin fun, and smiling out there.

Good Ruby. Yes there are judges at powwows judging the old style jingle who lack the knowledge of the proper protocol, ie. the steps, etc. which leads to our own anishnabe ikwes not placing. and yes, it bothers me to some extent, but again its not the fault of anyone if they lack the awareness. I hope to make it to Hinckley to see the trad category!

**BurBz** · 05-15-2004, 02:00 PM

wow! this has turned into a really good discussion! :) Coool...

OKay, what about a non Ojib woman, BUT a full Blood from another tribe that lets say she really knows the old style steps and dances only that style ....and does not possess any of the "highlighter" type of dresses...If you happen to be at the same pw as this person would you Ojib Kwes go up to her and say "hey you did a good job dancing out there, thanks for carrying on the true meaning of our dress" :dontknow: I'm just curious :D ...kinda a cheezy question...but i'm just wondering :)

**ojibwaysweetie** · 05-17-2004, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burberrilish

wow! this has turned into a really good discussion! :) Coool...

OKay, what about a non Ojib woman, BUT a full Blood from another tribe that lets say she really knows the old style steps and dances only that style ....and does not possess any of the "highlighter" type of dresses...If you happen to be at the same pw as this person would you Ojib Kwes go up to her and say "hey you did a good job dancing out there, thanks for carrying on the true meaning of our dress" :dontknow: I'm just curious :D ...kinda a cheezy question...but i'm just wondering :)

Hiya Burbz :)

Well, first of all......in my respectful opinion a woman who dances jingle from another tribe will not know the "real" old style. She may know how to dance the steps and the movements while dancing both straight and sidestep, but to know the real old style the dress possesses that spirit of healing and medicine and there are certain things Anishnabe Ikwe has to do before it can be recognized as a true jingle dress. :) Not a cheesy question, Burbz how we going to know if we dont' ask right? :D

**BurBz** · 05-17-2004, 01:53 PM

Ohhh Okay OjiSweetie!! Thanks :) seeeee it doesn't hurt to ask huh??? :p

05-05-2004, 10:13 AM	#61 (permalink)
ojibwaysweetie PowWows.com Addicts Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Heart of the Great Lakes, Ontario Canada Posts: 5,003	Ojibway elders believe in the healing of the dress. If they ask you to dance you better get up and dance! It is not wrong to fulfill an elders request. __________________ "Gaa wiin daa-aangoshkigaazo ahaw enaabiyaan gaa-inaabid" Last edited by ojibwaysweetie; 05-05-2004 at 11:07 AM.

05-06-2004, 07:28 PM	#64 (permalink)
ojibwaysweetie PowWows.com Addicts Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Heart of the Great Lakes, Ontario Canada Posts: 5,003	Yes. Kiwehnzii said something about that in an earlier post. There are jingle dresses that are traditional and worn in the ceremonies. Very different from the flashy, neon ones lol. __________________ "Gaa wiin daa-aangoshkigaazo ahaw enaabiyaan gaa-inaabid"

05-10-2004, 03:05 PM	#66 (permalink)
ojibwaysweetie PowWows.com Addicts Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Heart of the Great Lakes, Ontario Canada Posts: 5,003	It happens all the time. Personally it bothers me to some extent.. I don't know how the other kwes feel here. The thing that keeps me happy is knowing that we are the true people of the jingle dress, and only Anishnabe kwe, when done properly has the true spirit of healing within the dress. The contemp dresses are used for contest and I said before somewhere, most probably those contemp dresses are not properly taken care of before wearing, I mean, how can they when they are not anishnabe, right? How would a dancer lets say from new mexico for example know what the proper protocol is before wearing it? They would not know, therefore the dress is lacking the spirit of healing. Makes sense? I'm trying to type quickly here as I am with auditors this afternoon LOL. :p __________________ "Gaa wiin daa-aangoshkigaazo ahaw enaabiyaan gaa-inaabid"

05-10-2004, 03:55 PM	#67 (permalink)
Roobz jingle jangle mornin' Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: åt home Posts: 1,026	. Last edited by Roobz; 08-28-2007 at 04:56 AM.

05-10-2004, 04:16 PM	#68 (permalink)
native_flutterby I are an aunt Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: I am currently burried under tons of snow Posts: 241	hmmm...i guess after reading all of those replies and what not...and even before i read them i've come to this thought, and its just a thought, but i think there was a reason our people gave our dresses away, if worn in the proper fashion and with tobacco it becomes a healing dress, to be worn as that a healing dress to be worn by someone who needs healing. I know that when i'm dancing i cant help but smile, it feels good to have that attachment to god. and thats what i feel when i dance, there are songs where i dont even remember how i dance or even remember stopping. When the dress is used properly there is a feeling of love and your on air. but then again if a dress is just a dress for looks then thats the feeling that person will give off and how they will look when dancing. I dunno its kind of hard to explain...anyhow i guess it comes down to the dress itself it came from the creator as a way of healing, laughter is said to be a kind of healing and thats what i do...I will act silly to get a smile, i will also be serious when i need to be. as for the kits...i dunno i could see that as a way to learn to make a dress, but there wont be any feeling in it, no real spirit. As for my dresses my mother makes them, I could make my own but i chose not to, for she puts love into it and that just pours out when i dance. anyhow, when our ancestors gave our dress to other tribes it was a sign of good faith, a goodwill gesture in hopes that the story and in hopes they too would be able to atain the love and the healing power that creator had shown us, just as the lakota had given us the soldier drums as a sign of goodwill and goodfaith. ummm i think thats what i was thinking, if not i'll be back to edit. __________________ There can only be 2 moccasins on your feet at one time...however life has given me many pair...along with a needle, thread and really sharp teeth to cut with...lmao http://www.myspace.com/anty_tweeb Last edited by native_flutterby; 07-08-2008 at 12:05 PM.

05-05-2004, 11:06 AM	#62 (permalink)
sookout sh'nob Boogie Monster Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 543	I'd like to add that any traditional drum keeper worth his salt knows enough about things to be able to chime in when things are wrong - such as with young ladies and whatnot. You can usually tell the ones who know for sure what they are doing by the thunder staves (bent/curled/looped posts) at each corner of thier drum. Still, even in that situation, it's nice to have an older lady on hand that knows a thing or two - especially if she knows it the same way you do. Even though it is towards the center of things, I'd say the dress is only a fraction of what is going on here. ganabaj niwii-ikidow meenawaa gomaa baamaa. heheheheheh :D

05-06-2004, 05:01 PM	#63 (permalink)
WhoMe PauWau Coordinator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Land of 370 Broken Treaties Posts: 5,560	In a recent conversation with a pws.com moderator, the question came up,"Is the jingle dress worn in jingle dress ceremonies different from the neon colored, multi designed jingle dresses worn in a contest?" My assumption would be yes. What to you Kwe think?

05-10-2004, 10:43 AM	#65 (permalink)
WhoMe PauWau Coordinator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Land of 370 Broken Treaties Posts: 5,560	As more tribes begin to adapt the jingle dress dance for competition purposes, champions begin to emerge. Would it offend the Anishinabe if there was a major powwow and no Anishinabe placed even though they were well represented? What do you think of contemporary non Anishinabe dancers, placing higher than Anishinabe Ikwe's in jingle dress contests?

05-10-2004, 06:59 PM	#69 (permalink)
Roobz jingle jangle mornin' Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: åt home Posts: 1,026	. Last edited by Roobz; 08-28-2007 at 04:56 AM.

05-15-2004, 02:00 PM	#71 (permalink)
BurBz Dineth Hearth Throth Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: AZ Posts: 13,899	wow! this has turned into a really good discussion! :) Coool... OKay, what about a non Ojib woman, BUT a full Blood from another tribe that lets say she really knows the old style steps and dances only that style ....and does not possess any of the "highlighter" type of dresses...If you happen to be at the same pw as this person would you Ojib Kwes go up to her and say "hey you did a good job dancing out there, thanks for carrying on the true meaning of our dress" :dontknow: I'm just curious :D ...kinda a cheezy question...but i'm just wondering :) __________________ I'm not mean, you're just a sissy! :Tongue

05-17-2004, 01:53 PM	#73 (permalink)
BurBz Dineth Hearth Throth Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: AZ Posts: 13,899	Ohhh Okay OjiSweetie!! Thanks :) seeeee it doesn't hurt to ask huh??? :p __________________ I'm not mean, you're just a sissy! :Tongue

05-17-2004, 02:40 PM	#74 (permalink)
ojibwaysweetie PowWows.com Addicts Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Heart of the Great Lakes, Ontario Canada Posts: 5,003