Kwe Question? - Page 2

WhoMe · 04-05-2004, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by storm

First off; thanks for those who spoke.
I learned something....
My daughter wanted to dance this way years ago. I said NO. We know nothing about it. We cannot just pick it up.
She can dress and dance several ways,(Tribes) and knows those things she should about those dresses.
She wanted to dance in that jingle dress because all her friends did, it was the thing.... Now I know a little more about it and I know I was right..
There are dances and there are "dances"...

____

Storm:

Well, this thread actually HAS made a difference. I'm with you. . . I too have learned a lot. Most importantly, these dresses HAVE MEANING to the Anishnabe people. Not just anyone should put one on whenever they feel like it.

ndnmba · 04-05-2004, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ojibwaysweetie

In spite of the sadness I feel because of the way our dress has been exhibited over the years by many, it will still go on being exhibited as just a pretty dress - a category. With those dresses that are being danced with for no other reason that a hope to place at a contest powwow, it lacks the "true" meaning. It has no anishnabe spirit because I could bet nearly 100% of the time, the correct protocol and traditions have not been followed before putting it on. There (rightly) is even a proper way to put the dress on! I mean, how can it be correctly followed for it is not any other tribes' way, right? There are ceremonies to go through, there are teachings that go along with it, there are teaching what to do and what not to do (even while at powwows). We dont dance while moontime is with us. I enjoy watching "native" women dance at powwows with our dresses, it makes me proud to know my Ojibway nation are the true owners of the Jingle Dress. It just makes me a little sad to know those contest contemporary dresses lack the true spirit of healing. Then again, there still are many that do have it! So, to you Native women from other tribes who dance jingle have fun and most of all have respect :)
Mii-aweh!

I totally agree with Ojibwaysweetie. I actually prefer to think of the Jingle Dress in two different mindsets- one based on its use at contest pow-wows and one based on traditional pow-wows/uses. I think of the contest jingle dress as just a category so that when I see things that might be offensive to to me, it doesn't bother me as much. This dress was meant to be shared with other tribes and that I am ok with this mindset BECAUSE I know that there are a large number of anishinabe-ikwes that are still keeping it real. The things that bother me that I see at pow-wows are when people from other tribes start to add their personal tribal beliefs/ways and state that they are a part of the jingle dress traditions. I had a girl just ask me if you needed to be a virgin and abstain from sex in order to dance jingle....

**BurBz** · 04-05-2004, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ndnmba

I had a girl just ask me if you needed to be a virgin and abstain from sex in order to dance jingle....

I think some other user brought this up in their post.... :dontknow:

Singing Otter · 04-06-2004, 03:47 AM

I brought up sleeping around.... but I believe there is a difference in loving someone enough to give yourself to them and sleeping with tom, dick (pardon muh pun), harry, elijah, james, fred, peter (HAHA whoops), etc. ... my momma taught me that your body is your temple... a man can lay down with more than one woman and get up a man but a woman that lays down with more than one man gets up a whore (stop trying to get mental images ya pervs lmao hehe j/k). ie. a lady needs to respect herself.... but I'm not Ojibwe so I can't answer from that aspect.... just share my own perspective ya know? :mickey2:

Singing Otter · 04-06-2004, 03:48 AM

Not lookin down on anybody, just sharing how I was brought up :)

**Roobz** · 04-06-2004, 05:19 PM

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**Roobz** · 04-06-2004, 05:22 PM

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standstill · 04-06-2004, 06:22 PM

This is a good thread. I too have learned so much about the jingle dress since coming to this site. I can remember when it was a rarity to see jingle dress dancers here in the south but now there are more and more. I enjoy watching and hearing the music the cones make, it warms my heart. It will never be our way but we respect you native ladies that dance with good hearts....and thank you for standing up and being heard.

Fancy Maiden · 04-06-2004, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lakota_winyan

But my question is this..would you be willing to share..teachings..about this if people were interested in learning?

Excatly would any of you want to teach someone who would like to know about the dress or any other dance?? I have been dancing most of my life and i am native...... however i dont look it. My mother married a german man, so i have blond hair does that automatically make me a "wannabee" just by a glance at me.
I was asked to dance jingle with a friend (it was my first time jingling), and after i stepped out of the circle an ojib elder asked me to dance for his family. So if you see a blond women dancing jingle right or wrong....... dont discrimnate her (or me for that matter) because you dont know her reason for dancing if she even has one. If she or any other dancer is doing something tell them.... dont yell. be polite.

Lakota_winyan · 04-07-2004, 01:42 PM

I am aware about the ceremonial part of it; and that belongs there..what I am asking is the how do you keep a little aspect of that in the arena? It was mentioned about sobriety: and I do have sobriety and don't do drugs either. I usually dance exhibition at the bigger pws. Yes, I see those women who drink the night before and come thru ge all hung over. But who am I to say? But I guess the next pw..I will ask some of these questions..see what kind of ans. I get. This is interesting..I had another ? about the side step..where healing is sposed to take place? Would I be able to observe that? How it's done etc. or is that a no no..you know how fancy some women get during..sidestep..I was just wondering..about that..?????

**~*~ShanLyn~*~** · 04-07-2004, 02:58 PM

I think anyone from any culture would be willing to share what they know with people about teachings or traditions or meanings etc. just to get rid of misconceptions etc.

I think you can still powwow and dance in contest without being any less "traditional".
and I do think, like it was mentioned before....that theres a difference between contest dancing and using the dress for the ceremonies. These are ceremonies that arent usually carried out at powwows, because thats not where the ceremonies belong. But the dress has been brought out into the powwow scene and its going to stay there and will evolve and change. I'm not crazy about the wild fancy moves but I'm not ojibwe so what do i know

**ojibwaysweetie** · 04-07-2004, 03:38 PM

Any more Ojibway Ikwes out there to put your thoughts here?

sarah_sarah_sarah · 04-07-2004, 03:48 PM

I think anyone should be able to wear and dance the jingle. BUT go about it the way the orgianl wearers do and don't dissrespect the dress by actions you can't take back when weaering it. You know who you are.

MishkomekinaakIkwe · 04-07-2004, 04:09 PM

I got sumthin to say.. but i gotta go pick mah bb up! talk to you later kwe's!

04-06-2004, 03:47 AM	#24 (permalink)
Singing Otter Gotz ta be me! Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,392 Blog Entries: 1	I brought up sleeping around.... but I believe there is a difference in loving someone enough to give yourself to them and sleeping with tom, dick (pardon muh pun), harry, elijah, james, fred, peter (HAHA whoops), etc. ... my momma taught me that your body is your temple... a man can lay down with more than one woman and get up a man but a woman that lays down with more than one man gets up a whore (stop trying to get mental images ya pervs lmao hehe j/k). ie. a lady needs to respect herself.... but I'm not Ojibwe so I can't answer from that aspect.... just share my own perspective ya know? :mickey2: __________________ Cowboy wisdom: A thong is like a barb wire fence, it protects the property without blocking the view.

04-06-2004, 03:48 AM	#25 (permalink)
Singing Otter Gotz ta be me! Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,392 Blog Entries: 1	Not lookin down on anybody, just sharing how I was brought up :) __________________ Cowboy wisdom: A thong is like a barb wire fence, it protects the property without blocking the view.

04-06-2004, 05:19 PM	#26 (permalink)
Roobz jingle jangle mornin' Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: åt home Posts: 1,026	. Last edited by Roobz; 08-28-2007 at 05:02 AM.

04-06-2004, 05:22 PM	#27 (permalink)
Roobz jingle jangle mornin' Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: åt home Posts: 1,026	. Last edited by Roobz; 08-28-2007 at 05:02 AM.

04-07-2004, 01:42 PM	#30 (permalink)
Lakota_winyan Champion Dancer Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 2,451	Re: Dress I am aware about the ceremonial part of it; and that belongs there..what I am asking is the how do you keep a little aspect of that in the arena? It was mentioned about sobriety: and I do have sobriety and don't do drugs either. I usually dance exhibition at the bigger pws. Yes, I see those women who drink the night before and come thru ge all hung over. But who am I to say? But I guess the next pw..I will ask some of these questions..see what kind of ans. I get. This is interesting..I had another ? about the side step..where healing is sposed to take place? Would I be able to observe that? How it's done etc. or is that a no no..you know how fancy some women get during..sidestep..I was just wondering..about that..?????

04-06-2004, 06:22 PM	#28 (permalink)
standstill Junior Dancer Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 121	This is a good thread. I too have learned so much about the jingle dress since coming to this site. I can remember when it was a rarity to see jingle dress dancers here in the south but now there are more and more. I enjoy watching and hearing the music the cones make, it warms my heart. It will never be our way but we respect you native ladies that dance with good hearts....and thank you for standing up and being heard.

04-07-2004, 02:58 PM	#31 (permalink)
*~~ShanLyn~~* Addy's Mommy Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: ¤(¯`·._»Pistons Country«_.·´¯)¤ Posts: 4,042	I think anyone from any culture would be willing to share what they know with people about teachings or traditions or meanings etc. just to get rid of misconceptions etc. I think you can still powwow and dance in contest without being any less "traditional". and I do think, like it was mentioned before....that theres a difference between contest dancing and using the dress for the ceremonies. These are ceremonies that arent usually carried out at powwows, because thats not where the ceremonies belong. But the dress has been brought out into the powwow scene and its going to stay there and will evolve and change. I'm not crazy about the wild fancy moves but I'm not ojibwe so what do i know __________________ **~~¤(¯`·._» >The Prettiest People do the Ugliest things <«_.·´¯)¤ ~~** Last edited by ~~ShanLyn~~; 04-07-2004 at 03:03 PM.

04-07-2004, 03:38 PM	#32 (permalink)
ojibwaysweetie PowWows.com Addicts Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Heart of the Great Lakes, Ontario Canada Posts: 5,003	Any more Ojibway Ikwes out there to put your thoughts here? __________________ "Gaa wiin daa-aangoshkigaazo ahaw enaabiyaan gaa-inaabid"

04-07-2004, 03:48 PM	#33 (permalink)
sarah_sarah_sarah Junior Dancer Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: 603 zone Posts: 141	I think anyone should be able to wear and dance the jingle. BUT go about it the way the orgianl wearers do and don't dissrespect the dress by actions you can't take back when weaering it. You know who you are.

04-07-2004, 04:09 PM	#34 (permalink)
MishkomekinaakIkwe Ur No 1 RoundDanceQueen Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: dis way, by dat big ol lake over der Posts: 412	I got sumthin to say.. but i gotta go pick mah bb up! talk to you later kwe's! __________________ "What goes around comes around. Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching. Sing like nobody's listening. Live like it's Heaven on Earth." Author-nknown