Powwow Organizers: Would you???......

Nezbah · 12-03-2007, 05:02 PM

Hire Head Staff that haven't even been introduced to the circle yet or even hire your own family members?

I dunno, I was raised ole style, and had to be introduced to the circle before I could even dance in regalia. Nowadays, I see so many people who just 'throw' on some regalia, wear the beadwork, put feathers in their hair, and have not been introduced to the arena in the proper ways. I shook my head at friends who've done this and try to teach them the ways I was but people don't seem to care. I really worked hard on introducing my son the proper ways and even made him wait 5-6 years before he could even get roached or wear feathers on him. He had to learn what it meant to 'earn' the rights to wear those, etc. It is so disheartening to see so many people just 'ignore' what should be properly done. But also what is disheartening to see headstaff to be chosen and accepted by those who do not have those given rights yet. I am very careful who I choose as headstaff just even for our little social powwow partly because so many little ones look up to these older dancers. I can't support someone who hasn't been introduced the right ways to represent our powwow. So what do you all think?

The other thing was that people have told me to use my son as headboy for our powwow. I am soooo against it because I am the one running the powwow, so it would not be right to have him be headboy. Last year he stood in for the headman because he was late but that was only for emergency reasons, eventually the headman did show up. What do you think of people using their own family members as headstaff for their own powwows?

Just curious.

Nezzy

Str8Dancer49 · 12-04-2007, 08:38 PM

Hey Ms. Nezzy....

On the first issue - people who haven't been brought in the right way.... I agree with you. BUT, it's also sometimes hard to figure out who's paid their way in and who just started..... and it might be kinda awkward asking "Hey, our commmittee wants you to be on headstaff, but are you legit?" I can't imagine there's really any way to police that.... Ideally though, the head dancers are folks who embody all those old school ideas, cause like you said, people look to them as an example....

On the second issue - family as head staff.... I think it really depends on the dance. For a big contest dance, I say no way - heck, i don't even think family of the committee should dance, much less contest, cause there's just too much to take care of.... kids can be put to work as waterboys (as if we'll ever see one of those in NM! haha!), counting raffle tickets, or just running errands for the committee and AD...

BUT, for smaller social dances, i think it's not a big huge deal. Unless somebody's doing it all the time, and then it seems like they're just greedy - trying to get all kinda giveaway stuff - or cheap - like they don't wanna pay another head dancer. But again, for a small non-contest dance or a family dance - it's probably not a big deal. Of course someone's always gonna complain, so you could bring in the big name powwow superstars, and someone would complain that you didn't get this or that other person or that you spent too much money or you didn't pick Str8dancer49 for your head dancer! hahaha.....

Babe · 12-05-2007, 12:22 PM

I agree w/ 49, it shouldn't be a big deal if the person's been 'brought into the circle' and such. It depends on the person's ways, traditions, etc. about how they go about starting to dance because it's different all over the nation.

And about the family being head staff thing, no, if you're running the powwow or helping run it, family members are a no-no, because people will talk, and if they don't have experience in that position it will encourage them to talk even more (i've seen it). Unless it is a small powwow, then it doesn't matter as much. But don't put your WHOLE family as headstaff! LOL!

It's good to see that you're trying to keep the sacredness in powwows, but in truth that has withered down a lot in the past decade or two partly because of the money involved and partly because so many nations have adopted the powwow into their own tribes. The only thing we can do is teach our young ones the way we were taught about respecting these ways in hopes they'll show theirs too.

WhoMe · 12-05-2007, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babe

I It depends on the person's ways, traditions, etc. about how they go about starting to dance because it's different all over the nation.

... but in truth that has withered down a lot in the past decade or two partly because of the money involved and partly because so many nations have adopted the powwow into their own tribes. ....

Babe,

This brings up some good points to debate.

There are a lot of dancers who come from historically strong, tribal, powwow backgrounds and families.

And there are dancers who don't have this affiliation.

Is there a correlation of entering the powwow arena for the first time being important for historically powwow affilated individuals VS. dancers who come from tribes who's tribes "recently" adopted powwow ways and do not see entering the arena with ceremonial acknowledgement, as being important?

Str8Dancer49 · 12-05-2007, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babe

I agree w/ 49, it shouldn't be a big deal if the person's been 'brought into the circle' and such.

Ummm... I think you misread my post a bit. I actually DO think it's a big deal, and head dancers SHOULD be folks who have entered the right way. I just think it's something that's almost impossible to police.

WhoMe raises some good issues..... Do folks from non-powwow tribes view "paying your way in" the same as folks from historical powwow tribes? I think probably not.... Also, I think there may be big regional differences. IE - in Oklahoma, where there are both powwow and non-powwow tribes, paying your way in is taken a bit more seriously, even among non-powwow tribes; compare that to NM or AZ.... it's just not seen as frequently (whether that's right or wrong) or seen as having the same importance as people in OK view the matter. Sheesh, I know folks (myself included) who paid in, sat out for a while, paid to come back in, sat out, paid in again, etc, etc.... that doesn't even count "paying for mistakes" in various contexts....

A ? for WhoMe - are the "introduction to the dance/circle" traditions up north radically different from in OK? It seems to me that the process in OK was adopted from Hethushka ceremonial protocols - ie, getting "roached" or "plumed" etc.... Up north where the full blown formal Hethushka/Omaha/Grass dance societies had a very different history and fate from those in OK, are the intro ceremonies conducted differently according to some other ceremonial precedent?

**Josiah** · 12-05-2007, 03:15 PM

I agree that people should have been brought in the proper way to be head staff
If its paying your way in or what ever that formal process is it should be done
All too often these days that is being overlooked

As for family and being on head staff that is a ticklish situation
I think it depends on the powwow
If there is alot of money involved such as a contest powwow then it should not be done just for integrity sake
But small social powwows those tend to be informal and no big deal especially if its known that they are not being paid!!
Just doing it for family

WhoMe · 12-05-2007, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str8Dancer49

A ? for WhoMe - are the "introduction to the dance/circle" traditions up north radically different from in OK? .... are the intro ceremonies conducted differently according to some other ceremonial precedent?

I can only tell you from my personal experiences of "up North..."

I was staying with a well known Cree powwow family in Alberta. While sitting around the dinner table, the matriarch of the family told me her grandson recently went into the arena, unplanned, on his own and began dancing in his street cloths. The grandma said this happened unexpectedly but they were forced to have a giveaway for him taking his first steps in the arena. Even though they were not prepared they gave away many items and others also came up to donate to their giveaway.

On another occasion, a Lakota community/spiritual leader in Minneapolis brought me tobacco to ask me to bring his son into the arena as a sponsor. During the opening grand entry of that particular powwow, all the individuals who were entering the dance circle for the first time danced in together with a sponsor. After the grand entry I received gifts for this honor.

__

On the Southwest front, my family asked me to bring in my nephew into the arena for the first time at the Albuquerque New Year's Sobriety Powwow.

**Kiwehnzii** · 12-05-2007, 06:25 PM

Every one of my immediate family had a giveaway as a means to enter the arena properly. It's the way we were taught.

Our jingle dress dancing grand-daughter first had to have her name. The dress was feasted properly.

As for head staff, it depends on the position and type of gathering.

Hiring family should be alright as long as it's not a big bucks affair.

I know at Toronto PW, the head committee members hire themselves.

Babe · 12-05-2007, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhoMe

Babe,

This brings up some good points to debate.

There are a lot of dancers who come from historically strong, tribal, powwow backgrounds and families.

And there are dancers who don't have this affiliation.

Is there a correlation of entering the powwow arena for the first time being important for historically powwow affilated individuals VS. dancers who come from tribes who's tribes "recently" adopted powwow ways and do not see entering the arena with ceremonial acknowledgement, as being important?

Sorry, I may have been a little too casual with the subject. Yes it is important for dancers to pay their way in once they have entered the arena. But to those who have adopted the powwow into their tribes do not practice this as much as those with strong powwow cultural backgrounds. In an area where powwow is scarce and only on an annual basis, you will see a difference in protocol such as this one.

WhoMe · 12-06-2007, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiwehnzii

...I know at Toronto PW, the head committee members hire themselves.

Ki,

So's if one of the committee members mess up really bad....

Can They Fire Themselves and Still Get Paid?

*L

Nezbah · 12-06-2007, 12:33 PM

LMAO @ you guys....... Yeah its like me, I am my own boss but somedays my boss can be really B****y......hahah. Can I fire myself? ayeeee

Well I go with my concious and gut feelings, even though our powwow is small or a social I still would not make my lil one head boy unless it was an emergency. Maybe cuz I have a strict powwow family, its either do something right or get yelled at.......LOL.

I appreciate everyone's replies. It's just sad that people 'adopt' these powwow ways but don't really respect the ways sometimes, i.e. correct protocols, etc. But that's all part of evolution, something will always change. I am just glad I was taught the ways, even my own traditional ways, so I can pass it down to my son. I guess i'll just continue to go with my conscience and gut feelings. Wish I did that when I was younger.....ayeeeeeee.

12-03-2007, 05:02 PM	#1 (permalink)
Nezbah Peace n Mutton Grease Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Ober here in NM Posts: 775	Powwow Organizers: Would you???...... Hire Head Staff that haven't even been introduced to the circle yet or even hire your own family members? I dunno, I was raised ole style, and had to be introduced to the circle before I could even dance in regalia. Nowadays, I see so many people who just 'throw' on some regalia, wear the beadwork, put feathers in their hair, and have not been introduced to the arena in the proper ways. I shook my head at friends who've done this and try to teach them the ways I was but people don't seem to care. I really worked hard on introducing my son the proper ways and even made him wait 5-6 years before he could even get roached or wear feathers on him. He had to learn what it meant to 'earn' the rights to wear those, etc. It is so disheartening to see so many people just 'ignore' what should be properly done. But also what is disheartening to see headstaff to be chosen and accepted by those who do not have those given rights yet. I am very careful who I choose as headstaff just even for our little social powwow partly because so many little ones look up to these older dancers. I can't support someone who hasn't been introduced the right ways to represent our powwow. So what do you all think? The other thing was that people have told me to use my son as headboy for our powwow. I am soooo against it because I am the one running the powwow, so it would not be right to have him be headboy. Last year he stood in for the headman because he was late but that was only for emergency reasons, eventually the headman did show up. What do you think of people using their own family members as headstaff for their own powwows? Just curious. Nezzy __________________ You have crossed my path, you have touched my heart, you are my friend, You will never be forgotten......

12-04-2007, 08:38 PM	#2 (permalink)
Str8Dancer49 Some Kinda Monster Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: In the 505 Posts: 217	Hey Ms. Nezzy.... On the first issue - people who haven't been brought in the right way.... I agree with you. BUT, it's also sometimes hard to figure out who's paid their way in and who just started..... and it might be kinda awkward asking "Hey, our commmittee wants you to be on headstaff, but are you legit?" I can't imagine there's really any way to police that.... Ideally though, the head dancers are folks who embody all those old school ideas, cause like you said, people look to them as an example.... On the second issue - family as head staff.... I think it really depends on the dance. For a big contest dance, I say no way - heck, i don't even think family of the committee should dance, much less contest, cause there's just too much to take care of.... kids can be put to work as waterboys (as if we'll ever see one of those in NM! haha!), counting raffle tickets, or just running errands for the committee and AD... BUT, for smaller social dances, i think it's not a big huge deal. Unless somebody's doing it all the time, and then it seems like they're just greedy - trying to get all kinda giveaway stuff - or cheap - like they don't wanna pay another head dancer. But again, for a small non-contest dance or a family dance - it's probably not a big deal. Of course someone's always gonna complain, so you could bring in the big name powwow superstars, and someone would complain that you didn't get this or that other person or that you spent too much money or you didn't pick Str8dancer49 for your head dancer! hahaha..... __________________ Functionless art is simply tolerated vandalism.

12-05-2007, 12:22 PM	#3 (permalink)
Babe Junior Dancer Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: In the bayou where the mosquitoes are Posts: 150	I agree w/ 49, it shouldn't be a big deal if the person's been 'brought into the circle' and such. It depends on the person's ways, traditions, etc. about how they go about starting to dance because it's different all over the nation. And about the family being head staff thing, no, if you're running the powwow or helping run it, family members are a no-no, because people will talk, and if they don't have experience in that position it will encourage them to talk even more (i've seen it). Unless it is a small powwow, then it doesn't matter as much. But don't put your WHOLE family as headstaff! LOL! It's good to see that you're trying to keep the sacredness in powwows, but in truth that has withered down a lot in the past decade or two partly because of the money involved and partly because so many nations have adopted the powwow into their own tribes. The only thing we can do is teach our young ones the way we were taught about respecting these ways in hopes they'll show theirs too. __________________ Two things a girl should always be: Classy & Fabulous

12-05-2007, 03:15 PM	#6 (permalink)
Josiah PowWows.com Addicts Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Oklahoma City Oklahoma USA Posts: 3,915 Blog Entries: 4	I agree that people should have been brought in the proper way to be head staff If its paying your way in or what ever that formal process is it should be done All too often these days that is being overlooked As for family and being on head staff that is a ticklish situation I think it depends on the powwow If there is alot of money involved such as a contest powwow then it should not be done just for integrity sake But small social powwows those tend to be informal and no big deal especially if its known that they are not being paid!! Just doing it for family __________________

12-06-2007, 12:33 PM	#11 (permalink)
Nezbah Peace n Mutton Grease Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Ober here in NM Posts: 775	LMAO @ you guys....... Yeah its like me, I am my own boss but somedays my boss can be really B****y......hahah. Can I fire myself? ayeeee Well I go with my concious and gut feelings, even though our powwow is small or a social I still would not make my lil one head boy unless it was an emergency. Maybe cuz I have a strict powwow family, its either do something right or get yelled at.......LOL. I appreciate everyone's replies. It's just sad that people 'adopt' these powwow ways but don't really respect the ways sometimes, i.e. correct protocols, etc. But that's all part of evolution, something will always change. I am just glad I was taught the ways, even my own traditional ways, so I can pass it down to my son. I guess i'll just continue to go with my conscience and gut feelings. Wish I did that when I was younger.....ayeeeeeee. __________________ You have crossed my path, you have touched my heart, you are my friend, You will never be forgotten......

12-05-2007, 06:25 PM	#8 (permalink)
Kiwehnzii Oldfart Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 2,858	Every one of my immediate family had a giveaway as a means to enter the arena properly. It's the way we were taught. Our jingle dress dancing grand-daughter first had to have her name. The dress was feasted properly. As for head staff, it depends on the position and type of gathering. Hiring family should be alright as long as it's not a big bucks affair. I know at Toronto PW, the head committee members hire themselves.