Zeke

I am certain you realize that such a closeted definition means that there ARE no Indians, beyond a culture, within a few generations? To use your blood/race argument, there would be nobody qualified to be Head Dancer within 100 years!

"Born Indian?" Really, who determines which parents are Native enough to bear more Native children?

So long as folks focus on RACE as a determining factor, they belittle themselves, marginalize our existence, kill our political impact, doom our culture to failure and reveal their ignorance.

It's all based in FEAR.

NorthofAda

[quote=SuzzeQ4;928018]Hey you changed your pic! [quote]

Yep - just didn't have the heart to look at Steve Nash after the Suns got pounded by the Spurs - hope that doesn't make me a fair-weather fan...

I see what you mean - and if we're talking about totally non-NDN folks being head dancer, then I see your point. Anybody who receives an honor should have earned it according to the traditions - princess, head dancer, etc., and there would have to be really extraneous circumstances for someone non-NDN to be honored in this way. They'd have to know the dances, have the appropriate regalia and understand the responsibilities of being head dancer. I wouldn't be ready for that yet and I'm Indian...

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KoolNDN

And their still not Indian as well!

Kiwehnzii

There's several things I fear.

1. Going to a powwow in Czhechoslavakia, Germany or England ( or Pennsylvania ) and be led into the arena by all non-native head staff.

2. Watching an old episode of an old western and watching Chuck Conners lead a band of Apaches into a slaughter.

3. And believing it's all good.

apacheheart

...What I don't understand about some of these posts is how folks willl say how something bothers or offends them,then they say shyt like"that's my own personal opinion"like it's some kind of disclaimer or something.If something bothers you,or you feel offended or disrespected,SAY IT!!.Don't feel you have to sugar coat it by saying it's your personal opinion.You're gonna find people who will agree or disagree with what you feel.By saying it's just your opinion doesn't make you exempt from the slings and arrows(no pun intended) that will be aimed in your direction.You should say what you feel,cut and dry,no alibi....
"jus' cause you pour syrup on shyt don't make it pancakes"....keep smilin'1

SuzzeQ4

Ok so you think I'm wrong or racist or hitler or something whatever, I think I've stated my opinion enough to make it clear what my opinion is (and apache heart, I'm not saying it as a sugarcoating, so I'l add that I belkieve that my opinion is correct or it wouldn't be my opinion OK) But what I'd really like to know from Zeke here is this: What is your definition of NDN?
Suzze

apacheheart

Suzze,
It's not that I don't believe in expressing yourself,and by all means say what you feel,but as you said, if what you believe is correct,then you shouldn't have to say that it's "just your opinion".I just admire folks who stand by what they say,instead of avoiding future issues.It's people who don't care to argue their points who finalize everything by saying it's just their opinion,thereby excluding themselves from any,if any, reprocussions from their words.
You should express honestly your thoughts on others who encroach on our ways.It seems that lately nothing is ours anymore,just to be taken and used at basically anyone's disposal,and not well either.I too believe that someone should be honored for their contributions to Native people and causes,but to have a non-ndn head dancer is just a step in the wrong direction for all involved.It just gives too many others license to exploit us even more.
If anything has been learned from history it's that"if you give an inch,they'll take a mile"....just another inch you'd be giving....keep smilin'1

Zeke

"Someone who is culturally recognized as such through knowledge and standing."

This reminds me of those idiot folk who are up in arms in support of the American Indians Arts and Crafts act of 1990. Folks who desire to purchase Native art will buy from the best ARTISTS. If that is you, there is nothing to fear.

If you are selling Chinese stuff with your CDIB, don't pretend to be all high and mighty. If you are not and feel you cannot "compete," the people who purchase such ARE NOT YOUR TARGET AUDIENCE TO BEGIN WITH.

Threatened cheese-eaters annoy me...

SuzzeQ4

I agree completely. Oh And I was being a bit of a smart a$$, I totally agreed with your point about the phrase "in my opinion", but I suspect I have used that phrase at times, however I am not known for sugar coating. My husband says I'm as tactful as an anvil to the head, I prefer to think of it as blunt honesty...just thought I'd have some fun, this discussion is going in circles & I am getting tired and about ready to say a few honest thoughts I have at this point, but am sure it would turn this thread from discussion to fight. really holding my tounge at this point.
Suzze

SuzzeQ4

So if your parents are both NDN & your leaglly full blood, but your not recognized by your cultural knowledge & standing because you were say adopted out, or your parents didn't teach you your background, then what? your not NDN? See such a person is still NDN, they may not yet know thier culture or they may never know their culture, but such a person is still NDN, obviously if they don't know thier culture they won't be head dancer unless or until such a time that they do, but either way the person is still NDN.
So on this thought let's say someone is genetically white (as in 2 white parents) but they hook up with a bunch of hobbist and learn what they think is our cultural knowledge & are recognized by thier hobbiest friends of having so called knowledge & standing, they are what suddenly NDN? Where exactly are you going with this anyway?
Maybe we should start a new question or something, Who here defines being NDN by genetics & who defines it by knowledge? Or is it a combination of both?

stillrezin

this thread just keeps getting better and better.

(carry on)

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...GoT GreaSe?...
www.Grease.It.Ayye.com
RezinInc

badmaninc

At least this thread is interesting. Just don't let it degenerate into name calling or the old faithful saying: I'm smart you're dumb.

Zeke

I would say that they are not intrinsically qualified to be a Head Dancer, which is what the original query was about. It is FAR more important to HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE then to be curtailed by some personally-defined bar set forth by those holding onto the only thing they have left: which will, eventually, be <1/256 of race/blood status.

I find this to be short-sighted to the extreme. Ignorance. NOT strategic.

Do you know why the United States went away from the Gold Standard? Because there wasn't enough cash in circulation and the maintaining of such an arbitrary mark was hurting, not helping, the strength of our currency.

"Do the math."

It HAS to be based on culture or we wind up marginalized, in factions, eating cheese, uneducated, living in backwater locations that nobody else desires, with a washing machine rusting away in the front lawn, thinking this is the GOOD LIFE because we've remained true to some isolationist ideal that was foisted upon us by the Federal government to BEGIN with!

Try throwing off the yoke...