Kiwehnzii

Where is this powwow?

If it is in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana, etc. , geez, I can see this happening. Just stay away and don't worry about it.

If it is happening in Wisconsin, Minnesota, N/S. Dakota, Canada, I'd say whoa......... WTF's happening here & so would most other people. But, I can't see it.

Anyways, don't worry about it, meezee happens. Just don't go if you don't like it. I wouldn't.

SuzzeQ4

Ok, finaly seeing the responses I expected to see when I first read this thread. For a while I thought I'd happened into some crazy reality where this was normal.
Kiwehnzii, thanks for the tip, I'll stick to the powwows up here for now, but got to tell you it's been my dream to spend my old age hittin powwows across the continent instead of just in my own backyard (so to speak). Maybe the grass really isn't greener on the otherside...LOL
Suzze

Zeke

Interesting.

Pre-conceived response to a loaded query?

"Cards are meaningless." "Skin color is meaningless." I mean -- come on -- how many fullbloods do we all know that are just shameful people (not dancing with/for them!), and how many caucasian-looking folk do we know that have done things in a correct manner (they DO exist)?

It is a case-by-case basis and anyone who indicates that some ordained banner of "overt Indianness" should preclude all strikes me as being inherently threatened, with little understanding of their identity as a living culture.

A Head Man that does not look like Russell Means doesn't hurt anyone's culture. Demanding that a Head Man SHOULD look like Russell Means is backward, harmful and closeted.

eap7

A few years ago when I was the chairperson for my college's committee, we had a white head man dancer. Reason being, he was a student and we like to have student or alumni be the head dancers, and there weren't any other guys who danced, Indian or not. None of us had a problem with it because he was brought into the dance arena by Indian people, had his Indian family come up from TX for his giveaway, and conducted himself completely appropriately. He was a great head dancer. Head dancers are asked to serve in those positions for a reason and if the committee thinks that the white dancer is enough part of the tribal community or whatever, then that's the committee's decision and I'm going to respect that. I don't think we should criticize unless we're a part of that community or tribe and know why the dancer was selected in the first place.

Wakalapi

If a "non powwow tribe" adopts the powwow tradition into their culture and has powwows now, how different is that from non-Indians doing the same, really?

__________________

"Friends don't let friends drink decaf..."

Kiwehnzii

What is a non-powwow tribe?

Almost every Nation in North America had gatherings where they danced and sang. Well........ I could be wrong. I would have to say EVERY Nation did.

They celebrated, they prayed, they just had fun. Isn't that what they do at powwows? Is powwow just a name that every one uses? Wacipi, Hethuska, Chi niimiiwi, helushka, Midewiwin. These are some names that are used for gatherings in Indian Country. Certainly not powwows in the modern day sense of the word. But........ gatherings of some type nevertheless. Powwow is just a shared word by most Nations.

We just danced and sang and whatever purpose the gathering was for......... innit?

trob226

Kiwehnzii, you have a point, but every culture has such gatherings. They just don't call them powwows, just as not all Indian cultures call theirs powwows. So, Wakalapi, I think you have a point and maybe I'd better continue my considering about non-Indian dancers and head dancers. Maybe all that matters are the things Zeke notes - can the person do things the right way or will he/she be sloppy and disrespectful?

trob226

Of course there is a flip side to some of this. My grandfather was 3/4 Pennsylvania Dutch, and they have their own tradition they call "powwow," which is a folk medicine practice. If interested, see this article: http://www.kutztown.edu/academics/li...y/Powwow~1.htm

NCheyGirl21

I've seen it and I think its totally disrespectful. Its a native event and only for us. I can see them visiting and watching yea but being in the pow wow, no way.

SuzzeQ4

I think there is a HUGE difference between having a light skinned NDN who doesn't got that hollywood look as your head dancer & having a non-native guy (hobbiest, wanabe) as a head dancer.
Also I have seen light skinned & dark skinned NDN's do things in a correct manner as well as in a disrespectful manner. That's got nothing to do with colour. For me this question was never about colour, it was about race; those of us who are NDN and those who arn't
Still I think the non-NDN's ought to dance only the intertribals, that's what they are there for, & leave the grand entry, specials etc to us (light or dark). I was shocked because where I dance that is the way it is, and it's the way I think it should be.
Suzze

Furiously-Fancy

If they're adopted into a Pow-wow tribe and they understand and respect the ways.......then they're NOT a hobbiest.

__________________
"I'd rather be @ a POW-WOW!"

Zeke

I have to be honest: this sort of thing REALLY torks me off.

Who decides what is a "true" Indian via race? Who is arrogant -- and, decidedly, stupid enough -- to determine that they are the "Race Police?" What tools are they using? If their mantra starts with the concept of a Tribal or Government Card, then they are IDIOTS. (That entire system is messed up to the point of being "luck of the draw." We ALL know it.)

Wasn't it Hitler who decided there was such a thing as a "true" Aryan Brother and just another German? [sarcasm] That went over well, right? [sarcasm OFF]

So long as Native people endeavour to define themselves by race, and not a living culture, we are doomed to existing in a backwater pool of our own creation. Really, where does the race card end? 1/2? 1/4? 1/256, so long as you can "prove" it? Ridiculous and asinine. Why? Because you know darned good and well that nobody is making fullbloods anymore. Using race as a calling card makes you EXTINCT in 2-3 generations. (As an aside, making the BIA & IHS obsolete, so it is time for the cheese-eatin' losers to get jobs or enjoy Natural Selection.)

So the answer HAS to be culture. Do you know what that means: WE SHOULDN'T GIVE A DAMN WHAT SOMEBODY LOOKS LIKE. We should care about what they DO. If they do it right, that's good enough for me. (Don't even get me started on what "right" is. I'm from Oklahoma. I know damned good and well that I'd -- likely -- do something that upsets folk in the NW, for example. It's all relative: making the race card even MORE bogus.)

The only folks who are threatened by a cultural definition are those whose profession, or personal identity (self worth), it is to BE Indian. Imagine allowing yourself to be DEFINED by your race! "Sad." I won't even say grotesque, because these types do it willingly, as social lemmings...

Just, truly, "sad."

ANYONE can be a Head Dancer, provided they know how: because knowing how makes you good enough for me. They don't give "knowing how" away, it was EARNED somewhere along the line.

SuzzeQ4

Personally I don't care weather someone has a card or doesn't, but a person is or isn't NDN, just like they are or are not black, or asian, or arab or white.

What is ridiculaus is that this IS a discussion. If I wanted to head up some African event or ceremony becuase I was "African in my heart" or some other such thing, they'd all laugh thier butts off AND RIGHTLY SO!, but we all gotta disscus this with all the white wannabe's & hobbist & make sure we don't sound racist. It's not racist, it's protecting our culture for our children, so they have something real to pass on to thier children, cause let's face it who amoungst us wants our culture to become some beads & pink feather extravaganza that white people take thier kids to so they can pretend to be NDN for the weekend...And we all know that could happen, from the sounds of it, there are places where it does happen, & I just pray I never have to see it!

No one's gonna make me feel bad for my hard take on this & I KNOW I'm not the only one, the only thing I feel bad about is that there are so many who are willing to lie down & let non-NDN's take over...what's next, you going to take the same stance when it comes to your sweat lodge leader, or the elder doing your ceremonies? Cause the way I see it, it's just one slippery slope some of you seem all to willing to slide down
Suzze

Zeke