Contest Judge Horror stories

dmoccasin · 01-30-2006, 12:56 PM

Many pow wow committees have the best interest of the people in mind when they have a contest pow wow. However, things change when they include the human factor in evaluating and judging contest dancing. I wanted to see what other people have experienced in the past. The for instance examples.................

ndnMSW · 01-31-2006, 10:37 AM

Do you mean horror stories about judging contests, or horror stories about being a HEAD JUDGE???? lol....I have both.

**Kiwehnzii** · 01-31-2006, 01:30 PM

The ABSOLUTE worst thing that happened to me. I am not kidding. I was running the singing contest. Everything was going fine. This one very, awesome drum group was leading. Barring any mess-ups in the one remaining song to be judged, they was going to be in for first.

The rules were laid out. Amount of points for drum roll call were given to each head singer. They got copies of the criteria in which they were being judged.

Here is the horror. One guy from that group shows up for drum roll call! One guy! I had to mark them accordingly. That dropped them from 1st to 5th in a closely judged contest.

Holy snappin' ****holes! People who heard the same thing I did, who knew that that group should have placed higher because of their jammin' tunes were like WTF????
I woulda said the same thing. But.............. I knew why they didn't place higher.

It got worse. People on the internet were saying WTF???? How could they know if them fellas didn't show up for roll call?? I was getting blasted by people who were 2000 miles away. But........ I didn't say a word to attempt to justify anything. I knew that I didn't have to.
That's my horror story. I didn't accept the job the following year. Too much bull from people who weren't even there.
But, ya know something? Those guys were gentlemen. They knew what happened. They never said one bad word. Classy.

ndnMSW · 01-31-2006, 02:45 PM

Kiwehnzii, I used to live up that way and I've been to powwows where you and your spouse were head dance judges. Although it's been awhile, I remember them as being fair. Singing contests are always tough to be a head judge for. Seems like people always have alot more to say about how singing contests come out than dance contests for some reason.

*sigh* I have alot of stories, not sure they are as bad as "horror" stories, but I'll try to think of some of the funny ones.

This make take awhile......the thinking process. I'll get back to you on this one.....lol.

dmoccasin · 01-31-2006, 03:44 PM

Certainly can be a true test of own's integrity.
Hmmm. Thinking takes a lot of energy.

d

CHEROSAGE · 02-01-2006, 12:23 AM

I have been asked from time to time to be a judge both dancing and drum. I enjoy the challenge of being a judge. This is a difficult moment especially when there are some very good dancers. You just have to look for the right moves at the right time. What many people have to remember is that often times the Committee has set down points outside of the actual contest song. The drum contest is the same, often the drums have points for many catagories outside of their songs. Some of these may be a clean drum area, at least a certain number of singers, etc.. The judge has no control of these other points, but these judges get most of the flack when the RIGHT dancer or drum doesn't win.

**kiyaanii mom** · 03-03-2006, 01:54 PM

I was at a big money powwow recently, and I saw a lady judging her "sister in-law" Then I got to thinking, are in-laws really relatives? The lady never excused herself, and the head judge didn't subsititute her. (They had 10 rotating judges, so it seems it would have been easy to slip a replacement in.)

Then I was wondering if maybe she didn't excuse herself, because she is not legally married to the father of her two children. (In Navajo way, she is married.)

Anywayz...... so now I'm wondering, how far do we count relatives? Immediate family? distant family? Adopted family?

I think she should have excused herself. Anytime it is questionable, you should excuse yourself. That is the honorable thing to do. Her sister in-law didn't place.

**kiyaanii mom** · 03-03-2006, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiwehnzii

The ABSOLUTE worst thing that happened to me. I am not kidding. I was running the singing contest. Everything was going fine. This one very, awesome drum group was leading. Barring any mess-ups in the one remaining song to be judged, they was going to be in for first.

The rules were laid out. Amount of points for drum roll call were given to each head singer. They got copies of the criteria in which they were being judged.

Here is the horror. One guy from that group shows up for drum roll call! One guy! I had to mark them accordingly. That dropped them from 1st to 5th in a closely judged contest.

Holy snappin' ****holes! People who heard the same thing I did, who knew that that group should have placed higher because of their jammin' tunes were like WTF????
I woulda said the same thing. But.............. I knew why they didn't place higher.

It got worse. People on the internet were saying WTF???? How could they know if them fellas didn't show up for roll call?? I was getting blasted by people who were 2000 miles away. But........ I didn't say a word to attempt to justify anything. I knew that I didn't have to.
That's my horror story. I didn't accept the job the following year. Too much bull from people who weren't even there.
But, ya know something? Those guys were gentlemen. They knew what happened. They never said one bad word. Classy.

I think it would have been O.K. to post that they missed a grand entry. Then everyone would have understood.

I also think it is O.K. to remind people that the head judge doesn't score, add-up, make the contest rules. They just pick the judges.....

Sounds like the drum group and the head judge are both Classy! LOL

**chazziff** · 03-03-2006, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiwehnzii

The ABSOLUTE worst thing that happened to me. I am not kidding. I was running the singing contest. Everything was going fine. This one very, awesome drum group was leading. Barring any mess-ups in the one remaining song to be judged, they was going to be in for first.

The rules were laid out. Amount of points for drum roll call were given to each head singer. They got copies of the criteria in which they were being judged.

Here is the horror. One guy from that group shows up for drum roll call! One guy! I had to mark them accordingly. That dropped them from 1st to 5th in a closely judged contest.

Holy snappin' ****holes! People who heard the same thing I did, who knew that that group should have placed higher because of their jammin' tunes were like WTF????
I woulda said the same thing. But.............. I knew why they didn't place higher.

It got worse. People on the internet were saying WTF???? How could they know if them fellas didn't show up for roll call?? I was getting blasted by people who were 2000 miles away. But........ I didn't say a word to attempt to justify anything. I knew that I didn't have to.
That's my horror story. I didn't accept the job the following year. Too much bull from people who weren't even there.
But, ya know something? Those guys were gentlemen. They knew what happened. They never said one bad word. Classy.

my partner had a similiar experience - he was an assistant AD and a fellow singer from the drum group they both sing for was the assistant drum judge - for the casino they both worked for and there was another well known lead singer as the head drum judge and another man as the AD. and have been for years now been ASSISTANT drum judge/AD ..

well the head drum judge physically picked the judges and the assistant more or less just ran the ballots back and forth for him. any hoo one of the judges (who i might add was also from a well known drum group) really skewed the results against another well known group. he gave them a 5 (lowest possible mark and the other judges gave them 18 - 20's. well that one group ended up not placing.

and somehow or other it was my partner and his friends' drumgroup's fault!! and they didn't even judge and havn't been judges for the years the pow wow's been going!!! they knew that since they were from that area they knew something like that might happen soo when asked to judge they declined. it too was plastered all over the internet that THEY fixed the drum contest!!!

WhoMe · 03-03-2006, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiyaanii mom

Then I was wondering if maybe she didn't excuse herself, because she is not legally married to the father of her two children.

They may have not been his!

*L j/k

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiyaanii mom

Anywayz...... so now I'm wondering, how far do we count relatives? Immediate family? distant family? Adopted family?

I think she should have excused herself. Anytime it is questionable, you should excuse yourself. That is the honorable thing to do.

This is a good question? Everybody has extended relatives in the powwow world. What if it is a tribal powwow like Navajo fair and your clan brothers and sisters are judging/dancing. What do you do?

**chazziff** · 03-03-2006, 04:37 PM

i remember this one time this guy held a winner take all prairie chicken special and had a bunch of elimination rounds until his brother in law (wife's brother) was picked ... everyone was like wtf!! and the dancers were like "why the hell did you guys get us to dance all those songs?!?! - you should have stood up in front of everyone and handed him an envelope of money and been done with it"

**Kiwehnzii** · 03-03-2006, 05:51 PM

How does that quote go? " All my relations"

If we are all related, how can we have a contest where everyone has to excuse themselves?

Aye. Jus kiddin', jus kiddin'.

01-30-2006, 12:56 PM	#1 (permalink)
dmoccasin Junior Dancer Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Eugene Posts: 110	Contest Judge Horror stories Many pow wow committees have the best interest of the people in mind when they have a contest pow wow. However, things change when they include the human factor in evaluating and judging contest dancing. I wanted to see what other people have experienced in the past. The for instance examples.................

01-31-2006, 03:44 PM	#5 (permalink)
dmoccasin Junior Dancer Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Eugene Posts: 110	Contest judge horror stories Certainly can be a true test of own's integrity. Hmmm. Thinking takes a lot of energy. d

02-01-2006, 12:23 AM	#6 (permalink)
CHEROSAGE Pow Wow Committee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: , mo Posts: 1,316	I have been asked from time to time to be a judge both dancing and drum. I enjoy the challenge of being a judge. This is a difficult moment especially when there are some very good dancers. You just have to look for the right moves at the right time. What many people have to remember is that often times the Committee has set down points outside of the actual contest song. The drum contest is the same, often the drums have points for many catagories outside of their songs. Some of these may be a clean drum area, at least a certain number of singers, etc.. The judge has no control of these other points, but these judges get most of the flack when the RIGHT dancer or drum doesn't win. __________________ BOB

03-03-2006, 04:37 PM	#11 (permalink)
chazziff got me beggin ya 4 mercy Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Sneakin food to da Marine in my closet in the Big Blue House on Da Hill Posts: 4,936	i remember this one time this guy held a winner take all prairie chicken special and had a bunch of elimination rounds until his brother in law (wife's brother) was picked ... everyone was like wtf!! and the dancers were like "why the hell did you guys get us to dance all those songs?!?! - you should have stood up in front of everyone and handed him an envelope of money and been done with it" __________________ The sun will shine, This i swear, This i swear, This i swear ~~METALLICA~~

01-31-2006, 10:37 AM	#2 (permalink)
ndnMSW Teen Dancer Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Kansas Posts: 384	Do you mean horror stories about judging contests, or horror stories about being a HEAD JUDGE???? lol....I have both.

01-31-2006, 01:30 PM	#3 (permalink)
Kiwehnzii Oldfart Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 2,854	The ABSOLUTE worst thing that happened to me. I am not kidding. I was running the singing contest. Everything was going fine. This one very, awesome drum group was leading. Barring any mess-ups in the one remaining song to be judged, they was going to be in for first. The rules were laid out. Amount of points for drum roll call were given to each head singer. They got copies of the criteria in which they were being judged. Here is the horror. One guy from that group shows up for drum roll call! One guy! I had to mark them accordingly. That dropped them from 1st to 5th in a closely judged contest. Holy snappin' ****holes! People who heard the same thing I did, who knew that that group should have placed higher because of their jammin' tunes were like WTF???? I woulda said the same thing. But.............. I knew why they didn't place higher. It got worse. People on the internet were saying WTF???? How could they know if them fellas didn't show up for roll call?? I was getting blasted by people who were 2000 miles away. But........ I didn't say a word to attempt to justify anything. I knew that I didn't have to. That's my horror story. I didn't accept the job the following year. Too much bull from people who weren't even there. But, ya know something? Those guys were gentlemen. They knew what happened. They never said one bad word. Classy.

01-31-2006, 02:45 PM	#4 (permalink)
ndnMSW Teen Dancer Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Kansas Posts: 384	Kiwehnzii, I used to live up that way and I've been to powwows where you and your spouse were head dance judges. Although it's been awhile, I remember them as being fair. Singing contests are always tough to be a head judge for. Seems like people always have alot more to say about how singing contests come out than dance contests for some reason. sigh I have alot of stories, not sure they are as bad as "horror" stories, but I'll try to think of some of the funny ones. This make take awhile......the thinking process. I'll get back to you on this one.....lol.

03-03-2006, 01:54 PM	#7 (permalink)
kiyaanii mom We'll See.... Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: 4 corners area Posts: 1,601	I was at a big money powwow recently, and I saw a lady judging her "sister in-law" Then I got to thinking, are in-laws really relatives? The lady never excused herself, and the head judge didn't subsititute her. (They had 10 rotating judges, so it seems it would have been easy to slip a replacement in.) Then I was wondering if maybe she didn't excuse herself, because she is not legally married to the father of her two children. (In Navajo way, she is married.) Anywayz...... so now I'm wondering, how far do we count relatives? Immediate family? distant family? Adopted family? I think she should have excused herself. Anytime it is questionable, you should excuse yourself. That is the honorable thing to do. Her sister in-law didn't place.

03-03-2006, 05:51 PM	#12 (permalink)
Kiwehnzii Oldfart Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 2,854	How does that quote go? " All my relations" If we are all related, how can we have a contest where everyone has to excuse themselves? Aye. Jus kiddin', jus kiddin'.

03-03-2006, 06:09 PM	#13 (permalink)
ki