crazywolf

Boozhoo niji,

I am writing this after getting home from a pow wow. I was ask by the comittee of that pow wow to be head man, I have done so in the past for this and another pow wow they put on. They asked two ladies to fill in for the head lady position, neither had ever done this, and they were going to help each other out and take shifts as to who would lead in which dance session. I coached them as best as I could and pointed them to an elder that I thought could help them out. I thought they did very well for their first time.

During the Saturday afternoon grand entry, I noticed that some of the ladies traditional had stopped at one point inthe circle. The song ended before we passed them, but I saw they stopped short of passing between where the veterans had lined up and the drum arbor. When participating in the evening grand entry the head lady asked if we should cross in front of the eagle staff or not. I looked back and saw that dancers were still comming into the circle, so I shook my head and said no, we go on.

At a different pow wow I was repremanded really hard by a Cherokee man for crossing in front of the staff. He was the one carrying it. I was with a drum that was singing at that pow wow, and we were called to sing the flag song. I had to go between the staff and the arbor to get to the drum from where I was standing.

I am Anishisnaabe, and my people are in White Earth. I have gone to that pow wow four years in a row. In the grand entry there, with around 750 dancers, I crossed in front of the eagle staff 3 times before we stopped dancing. There were 12 in the color guard, and they were beside the inner drum arbor, facing the host drum. When they sang the veterans song, 750 dancers passed in front of that staff several times as those men proudly stood there with those colors.

Am I missing some protocol here? I appreciate any advise that you have to give me to use the next time I lead in my fellow dancers.

Derek

Wojapi4Me

I've always said half of pow wow etiquette is just common sense...think about it man...its almost impossible not to cross in front of the eagle staff. Unless the man carrying the staff dances in and then dances right back out, its impossible not to cross it unless the pow wow is really, really small. Usually, the eagle staff carrier and the flag bearers stop somewhere in the middle and the rest of the grand entry keeps filing in around them....crossing them as they go. How in the world is that disrpectful?

I think the "Cherokee man" who reprimanded you was full of himself...actually he was full of something.

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If pro is the opposite of con, then wouldn't progress be the opposite of...lol

chazziff

yea it is kinda common sense ... you can't help but dance in front of the eagle staff DURING grand entry or when they are "posted" up near the announcer's area. but to cross in front after grand entry when they are saying the invocation or singing the flag songs ... that would be no no. that's where the a.d.(s) steps in - to make sure no one steps in front ...

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billyjoejimbob

the women that stopped before the staff probably knew the end of the song was coming and did so so she didnt have to walk further before the flag song. She could just stand where she stopped.

As far as disrespecting the flag, talk to the people who joke around and have conversations during the flag song. Dancers/singers and spectators.

The cherokee guy - no disrespect to the cherokee people, certain tribes have a "Sacred Circle" instead of a "Dance Arbor" it is usually roped off with an openning at the east end for the dancers to come and go. I have seen this only on the east coast. Dancers leave between each song. I used to start up a song right away before they got out and watch them fumble around. Some of them have 4 entrances. No one is allowed in the circle between sessions and at the end a "medicine man" has to de-bless it i guess.

WhoMe

Derek,

There are a lot of yes's and no's to this question. It depends on what region or tribal event you are dancing, the protocol of the arena, who is carrying the staffs, where they stand in relation to the arena and whether or not they face the drum or speakers stand.


In the perfect world *L ...

Head dancers should keep dancing in the circle until the grand entry song ends. Otherwise all the dancers will bottleneck. When the grand entry song ends, the area (lane) directly in front of the flag/eagle staff bearers, should remain clear.



But this is not a perfect world.


*L

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"Today, recognizing and respecting the origins of powwow aids in our Cultural Survival. If enough people break the rules because they are not satisfied...."We will have no culture."

WhoMe

WocusWoman

This is exactly what I try and make sure of when I'm head-dancer, otherwise I have no trouble advising others to do it this way. I think Cherokee Man may not know all there is to know, how in the heck could you altogether avoid dancing across the path of flags and/or staff. Boy, wouldn't that look funny!

Wakalapi

It's just a powwow. We should respect the powwow for what it is, a social dance even though it has a ceremonial history. People like to make things more sacred than they really are. I believe that's why we get so many "protocols" added to the powwow circle and the separation of powwow and ceremony becomes increasingly blurred. There are ceremonies that can happen *during* a powwow and I would absolutely wish to see people treating such times with the ultimate respect, special prayers and whistled drums and all, but coming up with "just because grandpa said so" rules when "grandpa" DIDN'T EVEN SAY SO just to look holier-than-thou is probably a part of what attracts the new age loonies to our events and MAYBE we should take a long hard look at that.

The man who scolded you is what everybody else said ... full of something. Worry not about where people walked unless they get in your way. Let the A.D. worry about "protocol".

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Wojapi4Me

Hey Crazywolf...man, we need to get you to some better pow wows!! You come across the craziest stuff.

__________________
If pro is the opposite of con, then wouldn't progress be the opposite of...lol

crazywolf

Boozhooo niji,

Hey miigwetch to you all for your advise.

Singerdad, yeah I live in Florida, so that should tell you why I see all this strangeness. We have a lot of new agers comming to our pow wows here, and its just amazing how much ceremony and tradition these people know from the north, even though that many of them have never crossed the state line.

They call it a sacred circle down here, it has to be blessed and all kinds of stuff, and more often than not there is only one entry to the east. I was scolded one time for not exiting the east gate. At this pow wow there was no AD, but a fire keeper. And this man had the gall to grab me by the shoulder. Now reguardless if your dance outfit is sacred or not, I happen to put a tremendous amount of work into it, and I get rather.... angry when something gets torn up.

So yeah I want to get out of Florida and visit some of these other pow wows up north. All it takes is money. And also I am taking care of Mom and Dad. Without me being here a lot of stuff would not get done. People down here dont even know what it means when a whistle is blown in the circle. No one from the north carrying one comes down here.

Thanks again for all your wisdom.

Derek

CHEROSAGE

Hey there Derek. I would think that if the Color Guard with the NDN Flag carrier should stop on the west side just behind the drum facing east. The rest of the dancers could continue to dance around behind the the flags. This would give the dancers a path not to cross infront of the flags. Our dances around here will have a grand entry and the color guard will dance around about 2 times then post up just outside of the singers leaving the rest of the arena for the other dancers. In this case it would be difficult to dance infront of and crossing in front of the Staff.

Just a thought. Good luck!

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BOB

crazywolf

Boozhoo niji,

Yeah Cherosage, I have seen that done before, with and without the drum in the center, but for the most part I see them facing west. I guess it depends on what the pow wow committee wants. Down here, if you say something is done in a certain way by a certain tribe, and you show reasons why it would be logically convienent to do it, then the practice will probably be adopted. Here in Florida its like a melting pot of tribes down here. Everyone comes up and asks me all the time what tribe I am, what does my dance represent. I usually say, I am Anishinaabe, this is fancy dance. Well what is that? Its something all tribes do to look cool, and get money in competitions.

They look disappointed, and even more so when I say the dance has nothing to do with where I come from. Its like its too simple of an explanation for them to comprehend. I really dont like to sit there and go into all of the history of it, because everyone wants to take my picture and ask the same question. Maybe I should charge people for lectures?

Derek

WhoMe

Maybe you should.....


The next time you see that Cherokee doot carryin' the staff...


Give him a piece of your mind and get real angry.


Then tell him he owes you $$$ for the lecture.

__________________
"Today, recognizing and respecting the origins of powwow aids in our Cultural Survival. If enough people break the rules because they are not satisfied...."We will have no culture."

WhoMe

Wojapi4Me

Did this guy even tell you why crossing in front of the eagle staff was disrespectful? Sounds like he's putting some anglo values on Indian things.

__________________
If pro is the opposite of con, then wouldn't progress be the opposite of...lol

crazywolf