Head staff and the money thing... - Page 4

WhoMe · 04-20-2006, 10:41 AM

CherokeeO,

Proximity has a lot to do with your answer. I understand the local'/regional community dances that you're talking about. All the drums that I listed set up at local and traditional powwows.

Because of the great distances these top drums have to travel and the expense that is required to accomodate 10Plus singers, it is actually quite expensive.

What if you were asked to come up and honor a powwow by being their head dancer in say,,, New England or Florida? Would you perhaps, inquire about some travelling money?

$7000 is at the top of the scale of what some Megapowwows give as honorariums.

Normally host drums don't get near this much in a weekend.

__

ThundrD,

Okay, I answered YOUR question.

My turn.

How do YOU define "TRADITIONAL" powwow and are there "TRADITIONAL" powwows in your area?

**kiyaanii mom** · 04-20-2006, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHEROSAGE

I think it is nice to be able to get paid so much money to perform. I'm just not sure where else the heart is. I hear everyone down grading the whites and their money oriented society. NDN people hate everything about the white world until they want the MORE money. IF these people want the money I know that I wont be seeing them very much. I prefer the local and smaller dances. I like the family based dances the most. I and my family have traveled quite some distances to attend some of these family based dances. Family members and I have even been asked to help out as Head staff. To tell you the truth I have never discussed the money thing with these committees. At times they have informed me of what to expect BUT that had NO effect on our decissions to help out. I would prefer to camp or stay with friends/family than take up their money in a Motel/Hotel.

I have said this before and I will say it again, I help a committee not for the money but because they have asked. I will help the first committee to ask me. I have taught my children not to ever deny anyone the help if they ask. I taught them that we help not for the money but JUST because we were asked. The only way I would tell someone NO is because I have already booked the particular date. I would never back out of helping someone else even if offered a lot of money. I believe in honor not just money.

I must assume then you have a job that pays you some kind of salary. And this job allows you the luxary of enjoying your local, family based powwows. If so, that is good for you.

A lot of other ndns use big money p/ws to supplement or make a living. Getting to do the thing you love and get paid. Isn't that everyone's fantasy?! I think it is good that you can still find a small local powwow and other people who want to can also find a big money powwow.

**Kakeeya** · 04-20-2006, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhoMe

MNX, N. Cree, Bear Creek, Blackstone, Black Lodge, Eyabay and the Boyz .....

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThndrDude

It would make very little sense to invite one of those drums to a Benifit or Home town traditional Pow Wow.

One of those drum groups comes to our rez all the time for traditional no contest powwows. Believe it or not... just to have fun and show support for whatevers going on...so it's not always about the $$$

jed · 04-20-2006, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakeeya

One of those drum groups comes to our rez all the time for traditional no contest powwows. Believe it or not... just to have fun and show support for whatevers going on...so it's not always about the $$$

That has been my experience too up this way. So cool to go to some mini school pow wow or something and have some big name drum set up.

Them singers just love to sing.

The money is needed when it comes to traveling. Ever stop to think what it costs for 10-12 guys to travel, eat, etc? What if they have their families with them?

There aren't any singers up here getting rich off the pow wow trail.

Maji · 04-20-2006, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mato Winyan

Just wondering what everyones opinions are about what is considered a fair and reasonable price and benefits to be paid out by the committee? What is considered reasonable price and requests made by the drum/drums? What all is or should be considered when these are negotiated? Is it still reasonable to expect drums/singers to do powwows out of the goodness of their hearts?

Should head dancers be paid and how much? What about royalty representing a committee?

Reality check: we live in America, which is a Capitalist society. We need to realize that the best way we have of preserving our culture is to start really paying them a livable wage.

Why should we be so cheap? I would rather pay for a singer to sing or a dancer to dance or an Arena Director to direct, than spend money on teaching Native children how to play Chess, kwim?

Just my .02.

WhoMe · 04-21-2006, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maji

Why should we be so cheap?

Maji,

I totally agree:

"Indian singing and knowledge HAS VALUE!"

Quote:

Originally Posted by jed

There aren't any singers up here getting rich off the pow wow trail.

jed,

This is very true. If a singer gets top money for a weekend, he has to pay expenses at home, survive the week and travel. This income is not guaranteed to arrive each weekend either.

As Kaykeeya said, "A lot of other ndns use big money p/ws to supplement or make a living."

**Joe's Dad** · 04-21-2006, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakeeya

One of those drum groups comes to our rez all the time for traditional no contest powwows. Believe it or not... just to have fun and show support for whatevers going on...so it's not always about the $$$

I had the pleasure of sitting between Blackstone and Blacklodge, with Northern Cree and Southern Cree across the way, at a small powwow in Washington. Everybody was camping cuz there weren't any motel rooms around. I'm think big name drums get paid well to travel, and also think that many still attend their small local powwows.

WhoMe · 04-21-2006, 01:06 PM

Kakeeya, jed and JoesD,

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhoMe

All the drums that I listed set up at local and traditional powwows.

sunkato · 04-22-2006, 05:48 AM

I noticed tonight that after the grand entry, the head dancers were no where to be found. But I'm not dancing, just looking on...

ThndrDude · 04-22-2006, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhoMe

CherokeeO,

$7000 is at the top of the scale of what some Megapowwows give as honorariums.

Normally host drums don't get near this much in a weekend.

__

ThundrD,

Okay, I answered YOUR question.

My turn.

How do YOU define "TRADITIONAL" powwow and are there "TRADITIONAL" powwows in your area?

I understand the BIG Pow Wow thing. It's a business for some. Big name Drums, MC's, etc... It is part of the ndn thing. It's not part of my teachings or way. I am not condemning it for others. That would be foolish. I am saying it is not part of the way I was tought and raised.

To me a tratitional pow wow is one where there is a sacred fire. People have been invited and attend because it is an honor to be asked. They were asked because they are traditional honorable people. They attend and do things the old way. We dance before The Creator and expect nothing for it but the enjoyment of doing it. Noone is making money, not the dancers, drumers or committee. As is the case of the one we put on the committee actualy has out of pocket expenses every year. We always lose money. We are putting it on for the people.

Do I need to explain more?

ThndrDude · 04-22-2006, 01:34 PM

The point about the big name drums is this, It would be innapropriate, inconsiderate, and just plain disrespectfull to ask a drum that makes its living off pow wows to travel a great distance and not get lodging or get paid by a small, not for profit, committee having a local pow wow. You cannot expect them to do that. By the same token, if you are asked to be part of the head staff at a pow wow like that you cannot expect big money to be there.

CHEROSAGE · 04-24-2006, 02:30 AM

Well put Thndrdude. I wasn't trying to put down anyone trying to make a living. I just know that our family and Committee can't afford one of these drum groups. The problem is that we live in central MO and just don't have these groups around. We ask a Singer whom we enjoy their singing and knowledge. We aren't able to help these headstaffs out very much since the expences come from our pockets. Unfortunately the state of MO is of not much help. The Fair Grounds Admin staff are out for all the money they can get from the people. I thought these facilities were for the citizens.

I do have a job and am still able to enjoy some great dances in driving distance. I do take a vacation in the month of Oct to drive from Central MO to the very southwest corner of TX. this trip takes us about 2 days 1 way. Our first trip to TX I was asked to be their Headman. Our family has in 1 way or another helped out ever since. I will add that My wife is Lipan Apache and the sponsoring family is Lipan Apache. We make a family vacation out of this trip. I understand the sacrifice of travel these days. I just don't care for this professional NDN thing. I was always taught to share as you have, if that means my dancing, MC or even AD I will always try to help. I will always let the committee know if I am able to help.

WhoMe · 04-24-2006, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThndrDude

a small, not for profit, committee

Not for profit committee putting on a "traditional powwow?"

Hmmmmm? Sounds contradictory to me. Most traditional powwows are not sponsored by incorporated committees.

Just because no one gets paid doesn't mean it's "traditional." *L

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThndrDude

To me a tratitional pow wow is one where there is a sacred fire.

I have never danced where there is a sacred fire. Hmmm?

Okay I lied, I have been to a powwow in Germany where they started the "sacred fire" with sticks and moss.

CHEROSAGE · 04-25-2006, 01:28 AM

Aren't most Tribes set up now as

04-20-2006, 10:41 AM	#61 (permalink)
WhoMe PauWau Coordinator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Land of 370 Broken Treaties Posts: 5,560	CherokeeO, Proximity has a lot to do with your answer. I understand the local'/regional community dances that you're talking about. All the drums that I listed set up at local and traditional powwows. Because of the great distances these top drums have to travel and the expense that is required to accomodate 10Plus singers, it is actually quite expensive. What if you were asked to come up and honor a powwow by being their head dancer in say,,, New England or Florida? Would you perhaps, inquire about some travelling money? $7000 is at the top of the scale of what some Megapowwows give as honorariums. Normally host drums don't get near this much in a weekend. __ ThundrD, Okay, I answered YOUR question. My turn. How do YOU define "TRADITIONAL" powwow and are there "TRADITIONAL" powwows in your area? __________________ "Today, recognizing and respecting the origins of powwow aids in our Cultural Survival. If enough people break the rules because they are not satisfied...."We will have no culture." WhoMe Last edited by WhoMe; 04-20-2006 at 10:44 AM.

04-24-2006, 02:30 AM	#72 (permalink)
CHEROSAGE Pow Wow Committee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: , mo Posts: 1,342	Well put Thndrdude. I wasn't trying to put down anyone trying to make a living. I just know that our family and Committee can't afford one of these drum groups. The problem is that we live in central MO and just don't have these groups around. We ask a Singer whom we enjoy their singing and knowledge. We aren't able to help these headstaffs out very much since the expences come from our pockets. Unfortunately the state of MO is of not much help. The Fair Grounds Admin staff are out for all the money they can get from the people. I thought these facilities were for the citizens. I do have a job and am still able to enjoy some great dances in driving distance. I do take a vacation in the month of Oct to drive from Central MO to the very southwest corner of TX. this trip takes us about 2 days 1 way. Our first trip to TX I was asked to be their Headman. Our family has in 1 way or another helped out ever since. I will add that My wife is Lipan Apache and the sponsoring family is Lipan Apache. We make a family vacation out of this trip. I understand the sacrifice of travel these days. I just don't care for this professional NDN thing. I was always taught to share as you have, if that means my dancing, MC or even AD I will always try to help. I will always let the committee know if I am able to help. __________________ BOB

04-22-2006, 05:48 AM	#69 (permalink)
sunkato tiny tot champion Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: hunnied up in B.C. Posts: 176	I noticed tonight that after the grand entry, the head dancers were no where to be found. But I'm not dancing, just looking on...

04-22-2006, 01:34 PM	#71 (permalink)
ThndrDude Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: South Bend IN Posts: 21	The point about the big name drums is this, It would be innapropriate, inconsiderate, and just plain disrespectfull to ask a drum that makes its living off pow wows to travel a great distance and not get lodging or get paid by a small, not for profit, committee having a local pow wow. You cannot expect them to do that. By the same token, if you are asked to be part of the head staff at a pow wow like that you cannot expect big money to be there.

04-25-2006, 01:28 AM	#74 (permalink)
CHEROSAGE Pow Wow Committee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: , mo Posts: 1,342	Aren't most Tribes set up now as