Head staff and the money thing... - Page 3

Kio-Manche · 01-23-2005, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coyot_In_The_House

But the "from the goodness of my heart" as far as Singers....Sparked me...

As i've said before....Times have obviously changed....People who appreciate something, cherish it, and live by it will usually go out of their way to insure the availiability of it.....Music is a vital component of a Powwow. Without singers you can't have one...simple...No matter where you go these days you have to spend money. There is a difference between Money and the greed of Money....That line from the heart...tends to send me over the edge, cause i've heard it oh so many times....My repaly usually is....If the community or organization, or Tribe, etc....Appreciates that music well their going to realize the importance of it @ their Powwow.....Sure you have to work together, but the nickel and dime days are over....Especially at the larger Celebrations. Singers tend to get the short end of the stick....It's the truth. Not to say i've never driven all night to get somewhere and sleep in the van and missed 2 days of work to still be a day late and dollar short to pay bills. We've all been there....

I'm just one who looks at people out of the corner of my eye when they associate our current need of the almighty dollar to survive and they tell me how I need to come from my heart?

I agree with you 100 percent Coyote. My personal opinion is head staff, singers, prize money.... the more the merrier! I like some of those little local intertribals...as well as homecomings and the like better than the big shindigs...but I wouldnt begrudge anybody a buck. I take it all in consideration. I like what WhoMe says about being taken advantage of. And adding to that, I would say a powwow that takes advantage of peoples good natures, aren't going to last anyhow....

Coyot_In_The_House · 01-25-2005, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numunu1971

I agree with you 100 percent Coyote. My personal opinion is head staff, singers, prize money.... the more the merrier! I like some of those little local intertribals...as well as homecomings and the like better than the big shindigs...but I wouldnt begrudge anybody a buck. I take it all in consideration. I like what WhoMe says about being taken advantage of. And adding to that, I would say a powwow that takes advantage of peoples good natures, aren't going to last anyhow....

We need money to survive and when Committees fall short of that mark and then turn around and tell you that your "Greedy" or you get nickel dimed, I personally think that's a cop out....People should be compenated for the service they carry out. It gets real expensive out on the road and common sense will tell you people are going to go where they feel they can make ends meet....There is a big difference between greed and the basic notion of needing a dollar to make it. I've seen both examples numerous times....My rift is the whole coming from your heart bit.....Sure there is a difference, but it's cut and dry.....I wouldn't ever expect a group or an individual to come from their pocket to be apart of a Celebration? If that individual or group is invited, well they should be treated in that way and made welcome. Today...money makes people comfortable and enables us to travel....Bottom line....

WhoMe · 01-27-2005, 04:12 PM

Food for thought. . .

If a non-Indian museum or university were sponsoring a powwow and invited you to come probono (at your own expense) 300 miles away for a 3 days. . .

Would you do it "from your heart?"

ndnmba · 01-28-2005, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhoMe

Food for thought. . .

If a non-Indian museum or university were sponsoring a powwow and invited you to come probono (at your own expense) 300 miles away for a 3 days. . .

Would you do it "from your heart?"

ROFL, man you crack me up sometimes WhoMe, you've always got a point that you are trying to get across and it eventually gets there. My veiwpoint on headstaff and compensation is that it is all relative...

1. Benefit pow-wow- no $$$, you're there to help them make money for whatever the benefit is for. I usually try to actually sponsor a category, so they cost me money, but I never say no without a reason.
2. little contest pow-wow - little money and/or gift, rooms if the distance is more than 2 hours
3. Big pow-wow- big money, rooms, food is nice.

In all cases, travel and the length of the pow-wow need to be considered.

For drums, ask a local drum if you aren't willing to pay for hotel, travel expenses, and $$$. Without drums, there would be no pow-wows so I disagree with the idea of drummers being greedy. Besides most big name drums that are local to your area will help you for less than what they make at big pow-wows, if they don't get a better offer for the same weekend.

One of the best things that I ever think I did as a member of a pow-wow committee for a non-contest college pow-wow was to pay each singer from the non-host drums the same day money as the dancers received, plus give them a drum cut for their travel expenses. We had 20+ drums and some big names like Eyabay, Battle River, Whitefish Bay.

Two-cents1 · 01-31-2005, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhoMe

Food for thought. . .

If a non-Indian museum or university were sponsoring a powwow and invited you to come probono (at your own expense) 300 miles away for a 3 days. . .

Would you do it "from your heart?"

Hell no.

Aye! No really, I wouldn't. A non-Indian museum or university doesn't have any business putting on a powwow, and asking for pro-bono work just shows that they don't know squat. Like ndnmba said, if it's a benefit powwow and I'm asked to be on head staff, I know they are trying to raise money so I don't expect anything. If it's a hometown celebration and I'm asked, I'd go no matter what I got or didn't get.......it would be an honor just to be asked by home-folks. If it's a big contest powwow, I'm sure they would let me know what they can provide before they expect an answer.......if I can swing it with work, family, etc., then I'll go.

drewada · 07-20-2005, 04:16 PM

Head staff members have to be paid or else how can you expect that they can show up to do the job that they have been asked, whether it is a traditional or contest pow wow. Host drums also should receive a honorarium, whether it is traditional or contest because of the responsibilities that are expected of them. I agree with others who have said that it is unreasonable to think that money is not an issue when it comes to head staffs.

ThndrDude · 09-30-2005, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WocusWoman

I'm currently on a powwow committee and we are dealing with this now. I've had many conversations with my relatives back home who are also dancers and an uncle that has had a drum for many years. They all told me what you set/give as an honorarium is up to the committee; it doesn't always have to be money.

I wish so called "Head Dancers" saw things your way. We always offer a room but tell them money depends on what comes in.

ThndrDude · 09-30-2005, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drewada

Head staff members have to be paid or else how can you expect that they can show up to do the job that they have been asked, whether it is a traditional or contest pow wow. Host drums also should receive a honorarium, whether it is traditional or contest because of the responsibilities that are expected of them. I agree with others who have said that it is unreasonable to think that money is not an issue when it comes to head staffs.

When Head staff is told they will recieve an honorarium then they should and it should be what they say it will be. When they are not told they will recieve one they should not EXPECT one and they should never come with a "Minumum" in mind.

ThndrDude · 09-30-2005, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhoMe

OOOOKKaaaaaaaay........... :devil

So what I hear some people saying is money should not be a factor in being a on the head staff.

Hmmmm....

With this way of thinking........

What if you got A LOT less money that other head staff or maybe just a handshake and pat on the back? (such as the other head staff got $1000 and you got $25), even though you had danced your heart out and travelled a great distance with your family?

Then would it matter?

I think it has already been said that pay shoud be relative to the Pow Wow. Big Pow Wow, Big money to head staff. Small Pow Wow, and you know it is a small non-profit pow wow, and money should be small or gifts.

I was always tought that you provide food and lodging for anyone you invite. If you are able to pay thier expenses then you do.

You should NEVER go with the mindset that you will be paid a certain amount if it has not been promissed! THIS is greed, pure and simple.

**saukpuppet** · 09-30-2005, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uw_n8iv

Head Elder Man/Woman - $$ (same or greater than adults' first place) + room + food + powwow merchandise

Head Man/Woman - $$ (same or greater than adults' first place) + room + food+ powwow merchandise

Head Young Lady/ Young Man - $$ (same or greater than teens' first place) + room + food+ powwow merchandise

MC's - $$ (same or greater than adults' first place) + room + food+ powwow merchandis

Arena Directors - We're doing it a little different this year. We have a husband and wife that are going to do it together.
$$ (greater than adults' first place) + room + food for family+ powwow merchandise for family

Host Drums (2) - I guess we spend about $10k on the drums, but that's including rooms & travel $$ ahead

We have people in our committee where their only job is to keep the drummers & head staff happy throughout the powwow. They bring them food, pop, water, krispy kremes, grapes, ciggs, coffee...take them out to dinner after the evening session...it's a fun job:)

Wow..............i am available

ma-heench · 03-18-2006, 09:52 PM

Its nice to see that people are so thoughtful about this topic. It comes down to being as hospitable as you can be. If you are inviting someone to come from a great distance, it's only right to provide them with a place to stay.

Because I am from Oklahoma and my husband is from Canada, people often invite him to be Head Dancer or Arena Director in Oklahoma and don't feel that they need to help him out at all. Our nightmare experience happened when a lady from SE Oklahoma invited him to be head dancer. We traveled to Oklahoma, which is 24 hours away, taking time off from work. She postponed her dance from Saturday to Sunday, so counting driving time, we had to take more days off work and then, she gave him a blanket.

It is an honor to be asked. Its wrong to refuse, but sometimes people who are asking are abusing the privilege.

Pushtay Hill · 04-14-2006, 07:50 PM

These days, to hire head staff is costly to a committee,but people have accustomed themselves in that it is a common practice today. First thing people look at when they view your pow-wow flyer, is who's the Host Drum(s),who's the MC or MC's,who's the Arena Director and so on. And if you don't advertise your prize money $$$ amount,then you'll get calls,..how much is first place in the Adult categories,or how much are you paying the drums,or are there any specias? And if you don't have a known Host Drum then people sometimes decide that they'll go elsewhere,where the "supposed" good drums are. I know people have choices,but why should a committee go in debt if they aren't able to afford the top drum groups or big name MC's? It would be nice to have the top dog draw,but not everybody agrees to it when it comes to what the asking fees are for some drum groups to sing at your pow-wow. One of these days,our young guys are gonna hit the big time and they're gonna be asked to be hittin' the trail and sing at other major pow-wows,"just like Blacklodge". I'm out.

WhoMe · 04-17-2006, 11:15 AM

The reality...

Many of the top drums, dancers and emcees are CONDITIONED, to receiving top money and being "well taken care of."

It is an issue of supply and demand. Some popular drum groups, dancers and emcees get multiple offers for the same weekend. Unless it is a family, tribal or personal relationship invitation, money plays an important part in deciding what powwow to attend.

With good drums and head staff you get better attendance, than you would with someone who is not-as -popular.

Sad, but true.

**Mr Oakley** · 04-17-2006, 11:30 AM

WTF...Krispy Kremes??! lmao. Thats great

01-27-2005, 04:12 PM	#43 (permalink)
WhoMe PauWau Coordinator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Land of 370 Broken Treaties Posts: 5,560	Food for thought. . . If a non-Indian museum or university were sponsoring a powwow and invited you to come probono (at your own expense) 300 miles away for a 3 days. . . Would you do it "from your heart?" __________________ "Today, recognizing and respecting the origins of powwow aids in our Cultural Survival. If enough people break the rules because they are not satisfied...."We will have no culture." WhoMe

03-18-2006, 09:52 PM	#51 (permalink)
ma-heench Junior Dancer Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 105	Hospitality Its nice to see that people are so thoughtful about this topic. It comes down to being as hospitable as you can be. If you are inviting someone to come from a great distance, it's only right to provide them with a place to stay. Because I am from Oklahoma and my husband is from Canada, people often invite him to be Head Dancer or Arena Director in Oklahoma and don't feel that they need to help him out at all. Our nightmare experience happened when a lady from SE Oklahoma invited him to be head dancer. We traveled to Oklahoma, which is 24 hours away, taking time off from work. She postponed her dance from Saturday to Sunday, so counting driving time, we had to take more days off work and then, she gave him a blanket. It is an honor to be asked. Its wrong to refuse, but sometimes people who are asking are abusing the privilege.

04-14-2006, 07:50 PM	#52 (permalink)
Pushtay Hill Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 14	Honorariums/Comps These days, to hire head staff is costly to a committee,but people have accustomed themselves in that it is a common practice today. First thing people look at when they view your pow-wow flyer, is who's the Host Drum(s),who's the MC or MC's,who's the Arena Director and so on. And if you don't advertise your prize money $$$ amount,then you'll get calls,..how much is first place in the Adult categories,or how much are you paying the drums,or are there any specias? And if you don't have a known Host Drum then people sometimes decide that they'll go elsewhere,where the "supposed" good drums are. I know people have choices,but why should a committee go in debt if they aren't able to afford the top drum groups or big name MC's? It would be nice to have the top dog draw,but not everybody agrees to it when it comes to what the asking fees are for some drum groups to sing at your pow-wow. One of these days,our young guys are gonna hit the big time and they're gonna be asked to be hittin' the trail and sing at other major pow-wows,"just like Blacklodge". I'm out.

04-17-2006, 11:15 AM	#53 (permalink)
WhoMe PauWau Coordinator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Land of 370 Broken Treaties Posts: 5,560	The reality... Many of the top drums, dancers and emcees are CONDITIONED, to receiving top money and being "well taken care of." It is an issue of supply and demand. Some popular drum groups, dancers and emcees get multiple offers for the same weekend. Unless it is a family, tribal or personal relationship invitation, money plays an important part in deciding what powwow to attend. With good drums and head staff you get better attendance, than you would with someone who is not-as -popular. Sad, but true. __________________ "Today, recognizing and respecting the origins of powwow aids in our Cultural Survival. If enough people break the rules because they are not satisfied...."We will have no culture." WhoMe Last edited by WhoMe; 04-17-2006 at 11:21 AM.

04-17-2006, 11:30 AM	#54 (permalink)
Mr Oakley >>:+:<< + >>:+:<< Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 1,066	WTF...Krispy Kremes??! lmao. Thats great __________________ Mr Oakley was here see my powwow videos here... www.youtube.com/oaklee84

07-20-2005, 04:16 PM	#46 (permalink)
drewada Peace and Frybread Grease Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Great Lakes Posts: 3	Head staff members have to be paid or else how can you expect that they can show up to do the job that they have been asked, whether it is a traditional or contest pow wow. Host drums also should receive a honorarium, whether it is traditional or contest because of the responsibilities that are expected of them. I agree with others who have said that it is unreasonable to think that money is not an issue when it comes to head staffs.

04-17-2006, 11:57 AM	#55 (permalink)
Eagle Plumes Just Bead it! Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: MId-West Posts: 11,497