indn_grl

I'm on the hunt for a roach for my 11 year old son who is dancing grass. I want a roach that stands a good height from his head with multicolored deer tail accents.

What am I looking for in a well made roach that will last him awhile? What kind of price range am I looking at?

I have asked some friends where they got their roaches. They are really nice, custom made and run over $1000. Is this typical? I have also seen some roaches at a local store that cost about $400. What is the difference?

What are the recommended base sizes? What about the porky hair? What is the ideal length for the porky hair? How can I tell if the base is well made?

Any pointers would be a great help.

Nia:weh

NativePassion

I will be honest and say that I know very little about roach construction or sizes or anything of the sort. But if you are looking at buy one try looking on Ebay. I know it sounds a bit cheesy but there are people on there that make things specifically for Pow-wows. You can find them easily. Just run a search for roaches. They might even be able to custom make one for you according to your specifications. They might not be the cheapest in the world but there is probably going to be a good selection. Most people offer full refunds if you don't like it. Good luck.

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WhoMe

indn,

I recommend a 14-15 inch roach with 7-inch hair upfront. A tight yarn base is the norm nowadays. A hair base is much more expensive.

PM powwowbum49 for his price list. He can make any style and color you want.

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"Today, recognizing and respecting the origins of powwow aids in our Cultural Survival. If enough people break the rules because they are not satisfied...."We will have no culture."

WhoMe

indn_grl

Thanks for the suggestion. I appreciate it.

I found a few roaches at a local craft shop that is 18" long with a yarn base. Is that too long? What kind of hair is used for a hair base? Horse?

sookout sh'nob

Hair from the deer tail is the old time norm for bases in my area. The old time roaches are quite a bit shorter (average around ten inches), so it doesn't take as many tails... but it is still time consuming - about the time it would take to make an additional roach - somewhere in there. Maybe not that long, but close eh.

Out in the bush, there are just too many things to get tangled up in or caught on in the underbrush, so they made them shorter I think. Heck, I have a hard time getting through without my hair getting caught sometimes. It can get pretty thick in there when you're chasing a deer or someone around. The feathers were designed to come out easily too for the same reasons. That thick scrub would tear a feather up pretty good, so they took it out.

Anyhow, deer tails. That's the stuff. Sometimes moose - although that was more popular as the main/long rows. Good looking stuff.

indn_grl

I have seen quite a few roaches as well, not only on e-bay but at different websites that sell ongwehonwe regalia. I have also found some at a couple of local retailers.

I know how I want it to look, ya know full and high with the multi-colored accents and all. My concern is that I don't know what to look for in a well made roach.

I'm hesitant to invest in something that I want to last for several years without knowing what to look for.

Furiously-Fancy

I got mine in January......it's a magnificent piece craftsmenship!! You can't go wrong with Larry (powwowbum49). You might have to wait a year or two........but it's worth the wait! ; )

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indn_grl

Well that makes sense. I would imagine the moose hair or deer hair would be considerably more tightly woven as well. About how much more expensive would this be considering that I have seen the yarn woven base for $400?

Furiously-Fancy

If you're willing to pay $1000, I would go with a 22". If it's well made and well cared for it will last a lifetime. Since he's a grass dancer the roach length can never be too long.......unless it's past his waist.

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"I'd rather be @ a POW-WOW!"

indn_grl

LOL. Now that's a crazy image.


Thanks for the recommendation to contact powwowbum49. He was very helpful.

For anyone else that may have been wondering what to look for in a well made roach here is what he had to say:

Well knowing what to look for as far as quality in a roach is not that easy a subject to quickly explain. Most people only look at the length, color and price when buying a roach and none of those even come close to addressing the true quality of a roaches construction. Roaches can be fairly expensive, but for $1000 you better be getting a super duper kick butt roach. $400 for an 18" roach is probably about right for a craft store to sell one at but going right to a roach maker is usually cheaper, though you are buying sight unseen and that makes many folks nervous. So going to a well recommended maker is always best. Some roach makers do good work but are not good business men and other are just plain crooks.

Some things to look for in a top quality roach are the base construction, how well and evenly the bundles are tied, number of bundles tied per inch of length and how well the guard hair has been sorted ... just to name a few things. (The bundles I am speaking of are the individual bunches of hair that are tied to a cord to form the rows of hair that make up the roach. They are sewn down to the sides of the roach and should never be sewn with a whip stitch but rather should be sewn down in an in and out manner.)

Base - I prefer bases made of yarn but the yarn base should be made thick (the braided yarn stood up on it's side and not laid flat) and sewn tightly together for it to be a quaility base.

Tied bundles - they should have a uniform shape from one bundle to the next and should appear to be tied tightly.

Bundles per - The number of bundles that are tied per inch of length down the tying cords speak volumes as to the quality of the roach construction. I would never buy a roach that has less than 7 bundles per inch to length tied. Less bundle per inch than this means that the hair can pull free from the tied bundles because there is just too much hair in the bundle and it can not be tied tight enough to hold the hair. I personally think the best tied roach have a bundle count between 7 and 9 bundles per inch. There is nothing wrong with a count high than this, except that it take more rows of hair to make the roach look full.

The Sort - the guard hair (the long brown part) should be even as it passes around the roach and should not be of varied heights (varied heights will give the outer edge a saw toothed look or have stagered lengths in the same bundle making a shaggy look in the finished roach.

Now I am not trying to ring my own bell, but there are no better made roaches on the market than the ones I make. There are other roach makers out there of similar quality as mine but none better. If you send me your email address I can send you a price list that will give you info on the roaches I make and sell and how I do business. I have been making roach for over 25 years and have many pics of my work in my photo gallery on powwows.com. Just so you know I sell a standard 18" roach with deer hair in and out for $320.00.

Now as for what size roach to buy for your son...yes dance style can have some dictates on what kinda roach one might want, but there are no hard and fast rules and much of it is personal preference. When I am asked for my suggestions on getting one for a kid I base it on age and size. With your boy being about 12, I would recommend an 18" roach. This size is large enough to last him into adulthood without being too big on him currently that it would look funny. Being a grass dancer I would also suggest deer hair both in and out since with that dance style the dancers bend low and the inside of the roach is often seen. Now, that option is not manditory and you could go with an out only if cost is an issue. At your boy's age I would not worry about getting longer hair or extra rows cause kids can be hard on their stuff and the standard hair should be quite sufficient for a child

If anyone else has anything to add please feel free.