Women Dancers

**luvs2rodeo** · 12-12-2002, 01:27 PM

.question?

...i overheard some of my sisters pals... complaining this:

...there was a young girl about early 20's she had on a Southern style buckskin dress and she was out in the middle of the arena with the other men gourd dancers.

They were saying... "Oh no she isn't out there..she is not even a veteran!!"

...another said..."well that's o.k. she can be out there if she is not a veteran but she should NOT be OUT THERE right in the middle like that!! At least get to the side"

....another said... "well, ladies can dance on the outer circle of the arena with their shawls even if they are not Veterans nor invited by the Gourd Society dancing and they can be from any tribe!"

...so I was curios for myself...what is the "correctness?" :p

luvstraightdancrs · 12-12-2002, 02:23 PM

Quote:

"well, ladies can dance on the outer circle of the arena with their shawls even if they are not Veterans nor invited by the Gourd Society dancing and they can be from any tribe!"

This is what I have always been told. This is how I dance, with my shawl and on the outer edge.

Beth · 12-12-2002, 02:48 PM

The only time I have seen a women move forward from the bench area is if she wants to honor a man. She usually goes to him,puts money at his feet then moves to behind him to dance the song.

CHEROSAGE · 12-13-2002, 01:36 AM

As I have been taught the women dance behind us, these are usually our family ladies. Some of the women that are dancing aren't necessarily family members though. It isn't proper for a woman to dance out in the circle along with the men. not that these ladies can't help with an honor dance.

Hope I didn't muddy the water to badly.

MaggieB · 12-13-2002, 03:08 AM

there are war mother societies. However, they too dance on the side. Gourd dancing has been around before women vets. I think that girls should be on the side and dance. and only out ther when being hononored or when honoring someone. And not be out there all the time whether or not she is a a vet!!
that is just my opinion. and the way i was taught!!

CHEROSAGE · 12-14-2002, 12:16 AM

A-Ho MaggieB:

I so agree.

These women Vets I believe should display their honors on their shawls/blankets. The women I know in my Gourd Society would have a word or two for a woman trying to dance out in the circle with the men. MAGGIEB comes from a strong culturally strict family and does have some insight to the womens perspctive.

Thanks for your words and thoughts.

Just Stomp 'til sun up!!!!!!!!!!

yellowhawk33 · 12-17-2002, 10:44 AM

I've never been taught anything on this subject. I've just "seen" things around the pow wow grounds. I have been going to pow wows for nearly 15 or 20 years BUT I never dance, only to two steps or something like that. But what I have seen around the pow wow grounds during gourd dancing women never came out into the arena to Gourd Dance. They only came out to honor the men by placing money at their feet then went back out of the arena. And the ones that did dance stood on the outside of the arena with their shawls wrapped around them. Thats just what I have seen at various pow wows. I mainly attend the pow wows around the Midwest part.

napesne · 02-13-2003, 09:05 PM

see i am a dude, who was raised that the women have their place, and where i am now there is a thing going on where some women want to be dance out in the dance arena with the men because they too are veterans. but i see them going about this in the wrong way, they are pushing THEMSELVES to the front to be honored. Now I am a singer, and i dont get honored that much, nor do i ask people to honor me, but when they do, it means a lot to me.

i have a great deal of respect for my female relatives, women are the ones that first started teaching me songs. and i dont say this to be chauvinistic or to sound that way, but women have their place. and let me add, men also have their place.

another thing we have going on out this way is some men folks of the alternative lifestyle (gay, to be blunt) are pushing themselves into the arena. Now, i dont know how it is out y'all's way but this is frowned upon out this way.
Again men have their place and women have thiers, there is one young man out here who is choosing to dance along with the women during the gourd dance, and to come to the drum and to sing with the women and to wear a shawl like a woman.

Again men have their places, and this young man is disrespecting the drum and the singers and the dancers. I have seen people who have chosen to follow an alternative lifestyle at pow-wows, in the arena.

But this is gourd dance. Excuse me for my rant.

CHEROSAGE · 02-14-2003, 01:52 AM

Around here we have a few Feminant males but they stay in the male role when dancing. The Gourd dance isn't usually their gathering place.

SBZ4life · 02-18-2003, 04:09 PM

luvs2rodeo.....Where did this situation take place at?

You ever notice that woman dancing out there with the men only happen far off from where it originated? (sigh) You know how they came out with tapes on how to dance "native" style. Maybe they need a beginners tape or book on how to Gourd dance...Im gonna stop here........

park · 02-18-2003, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SBZ4life
You ever notice that woman dancing out there with the men only happen far off from where it originated? (sigh) [/b]

Well . . . . I know of one case several years ago where it happened right there amongst those whose dance it is. I was shocked. I was surprised no one said or did anything. Comanche lady. Maybe you know her . . . . Any thoughts?

SBZ4life · 02-18-2003, 07:38 PM

I dont know of any Comanche woman dancing like that...Where was this and when? Kinda interesting hearing that a person like that would dance that.........

CHEROSAGE · 02-18-2003, 10:51 PM

I saw this happen a few years ago in KC MO at a Memorial dance. Many of us stopped dancing and packed up. We didn't totally leave the dance, just the Gourd session. The next session she didn't come out to dance. We danced then!

I have never seen a woman dance on line with the men in Lawton, Anadarko, or Carnegie.

park · 02-18-2003, 11:05 PM

SBZ4life: I sent you a pm.

12-12-2002, 01:27 PM	#1 (permalink)
luvs2rodeo PowWows.com Addicts Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 1,154	Women Dancers .question? ...i overheard some of my sisters pals... complaining this: ...there was a young girl about early 20's she had on a Southern style buckskin dress and she was out in the middle of the arena with the other men gourd dancers. They were saying... "Oh no she isn't out there..she is not even a veteran!!" ...another said..."well that's o.k. she can be out there if she is not a veteran but she should NOT be OUT THERE right in the middle like that!! At least get to the side" ....another said... "well, ladies can dance on the outer circle of the arena with their shawls even if they are not Veterans nor invited by the Gourd Society dancing and they can be from any tribe!" ...so I was curios for myself...what is the "correctness?" :p __________________ Never squat naked in spurs

12-12-2002, 02:48 PM	#3 (permalink)
Beth Beth Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: over the rainbow Posts: 199	women The only time I have seen a women move forward from the bench area is if she wants to honor a man. She usually goes to him,puts money at his feet then moves to behind him to dance the song.

12-13-2002, 01:36 AM	#4 (permalink)
CHEROSAGE Pow Wow Committee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: , mo Posts: 1,316	As I have been taught the women dance behind us, these are usually our family ladies. Some of the women that are dancing aren't necessarily family members though. It isn't proper for a woman to dance out in the circle along with the men. not that these ladies can't help with an honor dance. Hope I didn't muddy the water to badly. __________________ BOB

12-14-2002, 12:16 AM	#6 (permalink)
CHEROSAGE Pow Wow Committee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: , mo Posts: 1,316	A-Ho MaggieB: I so agree. These women Vets I believe should display their honors on their shawls/blankets. The women I know in my Gourd Society would have a word or two for a woman trying to dance out in the circle with the men. MAGGIEB comes from a strong culturally strict family and does have some insight to the womens perspctive. Thanks for your words and thoughts. Just Stomp 'til sun up!!!!!!!!!! __________________ BOB

12-17-2002, 10:44 AM	#7 (permalink)
yellowhawk33 Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 34	I've never been taught anything on this subject. I've just "seen" things around the pow wow grounds. I have been going to pow wows for nearly 15 or 20 years BUT I never dance, only to two steps or something like that. But what I have seen around the pow wow grounds during gourd dancing women never came out into the arena to Gourd Dance. They only came out to honor the men by placing money at their feet then went back out of the arena. And the ones that did dance stood on the outside of the arena with their shawls wrapped around them. Thats just what I have seen at various pow wows. I mainly attend the pow wows around the Midwest part. __________________ Jerry D. Moore <YellowHawk33>

12-13-2002, 03:08 AM	#5 (permalink)
MaggieB Official Hickie Checker Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma Posts: 225	there are war mother societies. However, they too dance on the side. Gourd dancing has been around before women vets. I think that girls should be on the side and dance. and only out ther when being hononored or when honoring someone. And not be out there all the time whether or not she is a a vet!! that is just my opinion. and the way i was taught!!

02-13-2003, 09:05 PM	#8 (permalink)
napesne Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Land of Enchantment Posts: 20	gourd dancing and correctness see i am a dude, who was raised that the women have their place, and where i am now there is a thing going on where some women want to be dance out in the dance arena with the men because they too are veterans. but i see them going about this in the wrong way, they are pushing THEMSELVES to the front to be honored. Now I am a singer, and i dont get honored that much, nor do i ask people to honor me, but when they do, it means a lot to me. i have a great deal of respect for my female relatives, women are the ones that first started teaching me songs. and i dont say this to be chauvinistic or to sound that way, but women have their place. and let me add, men also have their place. another thing we have going on out this way is some men folks of the alternative lifestyle (gay, to be blunt) are pushing themselves into the arena. Now, i dont know how it is out y'all's way but this is frowned upon out this way. Again men have their place and women have thiers, there is one young man out here who is choosing to dance along with the women during the gourd dance, and to come to the drum and to sing with the women and to wear a shawl like a woman. Again men have their places, and this young man is disrespecting the drum and the singers and the dancers. I have seen people who have chosen to follow an alternative lifestyle at pow-wows, in the arena. But this is gourd dance. Excuse me for my rant.

02-14-2003, 01:52 AM	#9 (permalink)
CHEROSAGE Pow Wow Committee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: , mo Posts: 1,316	Around here we have a few Feminant males but they stay in the male role when dancing. The Gourd dance isn't usually their gathering place. __________________ BOB

02-18-2003, 04:09 PM	#10 (permalink)
SBZ4life ~Southernz Elite~ Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Room 112 Posts: 799	luvs2rodeo.....Where did this situation take place at? You ever notice that woman dancing out there with the men only happen far off from where it originated? (sigh) You know how they came out with tapes on how to dance "native" style. Maybe they need a beginners tape or book on how to Gourd dance...Im gonna stop here........ __________________ :indian2: MIRROR MIRROR ON THE WALL, JEAN CLAUDE VAN DAMME IM FINE:muscles: " say what I feel, I say what I think, I say what you do not like, Yet for some reason what I say is somewhat correct" Chief Big Beef 1999

02-18-2003, 07:38 PM	#12 (permalink)
SBZ4life ~Southernz Elite~ Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Room 112 Posts: 799	I dont know of any Comanche woman dancing like that...Where was this and when? Kinda interesting hearing that a person like that would dance that......... __________________ :indian2: MIRROR MIRROR ON THE WALL, JEAN CLAUDE VAN DAMME IM FINE:muscles: " say what I feel, I say what I think, I say what you do not like, Yet for some reason what I say is somewhat correct" Chief Big Beef 1999

02-18-2003, 10:51 PM	#13 (permalink)
CHEROSAGE Pow Wow Committee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: , mo Posts: 1,316	I saw this happen a few years ago in KC MO at a Memorial dance. Many of us stopped dancing and packed up. We didn't totally leave the dance, just the Gourd session. The next session she didn't come out to dance. We danced then! I have never seen a woman dance on line with the men in Lawton, Anadarko, or Carnegie. __________________ BOB

02-18-2003, 11:05 PM	#14 (permalink)
park Junior Dancer Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 120	SBZ4life: I sent you a pm.

02-19-2003, 04:52 PM	#15 (permalink)
SBZ4life ~Southernz Elite~ Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Room 112 Posts: 799