honoring ppl

MaggieB · 11-12-2002, 02:22 AM

I remember when honoring someone during gourd dancing was a rarity.

I remember only being honored when being introduced to someone. Now it is when I am head staff or something.
Also when I am head staff. I like to give stuff away to my friends on the sidelines during gourd dance and honor them. but now we have lemonns (ppl that follow) and nothing is personal.

Then I notice the same people honoring eachother ALL the TIME! I just don't get it. What has happened. Have things changed for the worse or for the better?

What do yo think?

sunkato · 11-12-2002, 02:41 AM

I've seen the whole gourd dance(all the men dancing) stop and line up to shake hands with the person being honored. Then every song there was someone being honored, so every song all 12 gourd dancers dropped money and honored the person [and probably didn't even know why they were doing it] . It's like the gourd dance was being shifted from one end of the arena to the other.

TTMNO · 11-12-2002, 04:08 PM

I always wondered what that was about.

travelingmocs · 11-13-2002, 12:41 AM

I agree honering was a way to introduce people or to honer a vetran or someone you have not seen in a long time, and only family and close friends would come and dance with you. Now a days the whole arena comes and dances with you. Thats fine in a way but it also takes something away from it too, cause alot of the people who come up have no clue whats going on they just come up to put money down and follow the crowd.

Well thats it, I hope I have not offened but I wanted to add my two cents...........

MaggieB · 11-13-2002, 12:45 AM

what do you guys think about shaking hands during the dance?
I was taught that it is what you do. I have heard ppl griping about it. where do you guys stand??

park · 11-13-2002, 10:42 AM

I agree that most don't know what's going on when someone is being honored during a gourd dance. If you don't know the person, don't feel obligated. A lot of people don't know the ways in which such honorings are done (for some tribes and groups, there are "rules"). I've also seen some abuses, such as honoring over and over to try to raise gas money (puh-lease). Things have definitely changed over time in this respect.

I think you should shake hands with everyone dancing after you are honored. Everyone includes the women, by the way, who are often left out. If it's a huge dance, I've seen people kind of wave around and do a little sign language to say thanks. I think that's appropriate also. If people are griping, I'd say it's because they don't understand.

CHEROSAGE · 11-15-2002, 02:36 AM

I agree, this is a pet pieve of mine. I call it line dancing. I don't understand why everyone has to think they need to give to every honoring.

I look at it like this- would you invite yourself to a party you were not officially invited to by the host. I don't get into the honoring if it isn't family or a very close friend.

This is different from a special such as a 1 on 1,etc.

We didn't see this until a few years ago. We noticed that many were not associated with any recognized Veteran Society. I still haven't seen this in Lawton, Carnagie, Anadarko, etc.

Pvt Butter · 11-15-2002, 03:11 PM

You might not want to go to a gourd dance in California, they'll just look goofy to you.

SBZ4life · 11-15-2002, 04:21 PM

Heres my outlook on the whole deally dalley...honoring people just to get money is not the way..abusive in fact, If someone is getting honored and I dont feel led to honor them I go on my way...mostly where I see all this honoring every other song is with "HOBBIEST" you know them *cough cough*(Looks around) well you know....the more you get to the source(kiowas)you see em honoring vets,people in service,new borns,etc...not just because Ted and Billy are dancing keen..shee.lol. ITS THE HOBBIEST I TELL YOU!!!...........lol

MaggieB · 11-15-2002, 07:46 PM

well there have been songs that move singers. You know when they are so into singing the song that you just feel this rush to stand up. That is when they get honored at the drum. I have seen old women throw their shawls at theier feet they were so moved. I have also seen women moved while singing at the drum. It is a special thing when a song is so powerful to do that. I have never seen anyone do that for just the heck of it so i really can't say that it is wrong b/c of what i was taught.

sunkato · 11-16-2002, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MaggieB
well there have been songs that move singers. You know when they are so into singing the song that you just feel this rush to stand up. That is when they get honored at the drum. I have seen old women throw their shawls at theier feet they were so moved. I have also seen women moved while singing at the drum. It is a special thing when a song is so powerful to do that. I have never seen anyone do that for just the heck of it so i really can't say that it is wrong b/c of what i was taught.

I like gourd dance. Thanks for putting that picture in my mind Maggie. There's nothing like a good song

SBZ4life · 11-17-2002, 05:22 PM

About honoring singers while they are singing...Im Comanche and Kiowa too if anyone was wondering.lol...BUT ANYWAYZ~~I sing gourd dance...and if someone likes a song being sung and they wanna honor the singer who started the song,thats what they do...put money at thier feet and that person dances. I dont see nothing wrong with dancing right at the drum. & about someone getting honored and you happen to be in front of them...Unless your like 5feet from them...I wouldnt worry about it. but Ive never really seen anyone dance in front of someone getting honored.

Hoka Bunz

MaggieB · 11-17-2002, 06:40 PM

usually when someone gets honored, the person who first puts the money down picks a spot where nonone else is. I think that if you purposfully dance infront of them just be be a butt. Then that is what you are!! i think that if someone accidently ends up there than it would be fine. however think about it. If you saw someone being honored would you try to dance over them?? No.

luvstraightdancrs · 11-18-2002, 12:00 AM

SBZ4life -- I for one enjoy seeing a singer on his feet, dancing at the drum. Really makes the other kick it into high gear and the jamming just gets better.

Never forget seeing Kenneth Cozad at the last Potawatomi Pow-Wow, singing with Scizzortail, last song of the weekend. Brought tears to a bunch of people's eyes. Danced that song through 14 or 15 times. Awesome sight!

:dancer: :dancer:

park · 11-18-2002, 11:27 AM

A lot of times those singers are being honored cuz it's their family song. You don't see that much outside OK.

R I Whiteside · 11-18-2002, 11:49 AM

It is sad that such a fine old tradition is being corrupted by over-use and inappropriate use. "Honoring" means "honoring," not "something for everyone." I have been to a couple of powwows where the same (anglo??) woman in buckskin brings out her lady-friend during a gourd dance honoring song to be honored also. No shawl, no pre-planning, nothing! The dancers look around confused, and then to prevent an embarrising situation, troop over to the woman and shell out a buck apiece. It's saddening more than disgusting. It makes it hard to

keep smilin'

11-12-2002, 02:22 AM	#1 (permalink)
MaggieB Official Hickie Checker Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma Posts: 225	honoring ppl I remember when honoring someone during gourd dancing was a rarity. I remember only being honored when being introduced to someone. Now it is when I am head staff or something. Also when I am head staff. I like to give stuff away to my friends on the sidelines during gourd dance and honor them. but now we have lemonns (ppl that follow) and nothing is personal. Then I notice the same people honoring eachother ALL the TIME! I just don't get it. What has happened. Have things changed for the worse or for the better? What do yo think?

11-13-2002, 12:41 AM	#4 (permalink)
travelingmocs Teen Dancer Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: HogPit, U.S.A. and raised in hell Posts: 293	I agree honering was a way to introduce people or to honer a vetran or someone you have not seen in a long time, and only family and close friends would come and dance with you. Now a days the whole arena comes and dances with you. Thats fine in a way but it also takes something away from it too, cause alot of the people who come up have no clue whats going on they just come up to put money down and follow the crowd. Well thats it, I hope I have not offened but I wanted to add my two cents........... __________________ If I do not know the answer someone else will!!!! Also forgive me, this system does not have a spell check so forgive the bad spelling

11-13-2002, 10:42 AM	#6 (permalink)
park Junior Dancer Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 121	Honoring I agree that most don't know what's going on when someone is being honored during a gourd dance. If you don't know the person, don't feel obligated. A lot of people don't know the ways in which such honorings are done (for some tribes and groups, there are "rules"). I've also seen some abuses, such as honoring over and over to try to raise gas money (puh-lease). Things have definitely changed over time in this respect. I think you should shake hands with everyone dancing after you are honored. Everyone includes the women, by the way, who are often left out. If it's a huge dance, I've seen people kind of wave around and do a little sign language to say thanks. I think that's appropriate also. If people are griping, I'd say it's because they don't understand.

11-15-2002, 02:36 AM	#7 (permalink)
CHEROSAGE Pow Wow Committee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: , mo Posts: 1,342	I agree, this is a pet pieve of mine. I call it line dancing. I don't understand why everyone has to think they need to give to every honoring. I look at it like this- would you invite yourself to a party you were not officially invited to by the host. I don't get into the honoring if it isn't family or a very close friend. This is different from a special such as a 1 on 1,etc. We didn't see this until a few years ago. We noticed that many were not associated with any recognized Veteran Society. I still haven't seen this in Lawton, Carnagie, Anadarko, etc. __________________ BOB

11-15-2002, 04:21 PM	#9 (permalink)
SBZ4life ~Southernz Elite~ Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Room 112 Posts: 799	Tia Piah GAW DANG Heres my outlook on the whole deally dalley...honoring people just to get money is not the way..abusive in fact, If someone is getting honored and I dont feel led to honor them I go on my way...mostly where I see all this honoring every other song is with "HOBBIEST" you know them cough cough(Looks around) well you know....the more you get to the source(kiowas)you see em honoring vets,people in service,new borns,etc...not just because Ted and Billy are dancing keen..shee.lol. ITS THE HOBBIEST I TELL YOU!!!...........lol __________________ :indian2: MIRROR MIRROR ON THE WALL, JEAN CLAUDE VAN DAMME IM FINE:muscles: " say what I feel, I say what I think, I say what you do not like, Yet for some reason what I say is somewhat correct" Chief Big Beef 1999

11-12-2002, 02:41 AM	#2 (permalink)
sunkato tiny tot champion Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: hunnied up in B.C. Posts: 176	I've seen the whole gourd dance(all the men dancing) stop and line up to shake hands with the person being honored. Then every song there was someone being honored, so every song all 12 gourd dancers dropped money and honored the person [and probably didn't even know why they were doing it] . It's like the gourd dance was being shifted from one end of the arena to the other.

11-12-2002, 04:08 PM	#3 (permalink)
TTMNO NDN MD Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: ASU Posts: 120	I always wondered what that was about.

11-13-2002, 12:45 AM	#5 (permalink)
MaggieB Official Hickie Checker Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma Posts: 225	what do you guys think about shaking hands during the dance? I was taught that it is what you do. I have heard ppl griping about it. where do you guys stand??

11-15-2002, 03:11 PM	#8 (permalink)
Pvt Butter pancake flipper Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 890	You might not want to go to a gourd dance in California, they'll just look goofy to you.

11-15-2002, 07:46 PM	#10 (permalink)
MaggieB Official Hickie Checker Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma Posts: 225	well there have been songs that move singers. You know when they are so into singing the song that you just feel this rush to stand up. That is when they get honored at the drum. I have seen old women throw their shawls at theier feet they were so moved. I have also seen women moved while singing at the drum. It is a special thing when a song is so powerful to do that. I have never seen anyone do that for just the heck of it so i really can't say that it is wrong b/c of what i was taught.

11-17-2002, 05:22 PM	#12 (permalink)
SBZ4life ~Southernz Elite~ Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Room 112 Posts: 799	Tia Piah Goodness About honoring singers while they are singing...Im Comanche and Kiowa too if anyone was wondering.lol...BUT ANYWAYZ~~I sing gourd dance...and if someone likes a song being sung and they wanna honor the singer who started the song,thats what they do...put money at thier feet and that person dances. I dont see nothing wrong with dancing right at the drum. & about someone getting honored and you happen to be in front of them...Unless your like 5feet from them...I wouldnt worry about it. but Ive never really seen anyone dance in front of someone getting honored. Hoka Bunz __________________ :indian2: MIRROR MIRROR ON THE WALL, JEAN CLAUDE VAN DAMME IM FINE:muscles: " say what I feel, I say what I think, I say what you do not like, Yet for some reason what I say is somewhat correct" Chief Big Beef 1999

11-17-2002, 06:40 PM	#13 (permalink)
MaggieB Official Hickie Checker Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma Posts: 225	usually when someone gets honored, the person who first puts the money down picks a spot where nonone else is. I think that if you purposfully dance infront of them just be be a butt. Then that is what you are!! i think that if someone accidently ends up there than it would be fine. however think about it. If you saw someone being honored would you try to dance over them?? No.

11-18-2002, 12:00 AM	#14 (permalink)
luvstraightdancrs Senior Dancer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Southern Straight country Posts: 662	SBZ4life -- I for one enjoy seeing a singer on his feet, dancing at the drum. Really makes the other kick it into high gear and the jamming just gets better. Never forget seeing Kenneth Cozad at the last Potawatomi Pow-Wow, singing with Scizzortail, last song of the weekend. Brought tears to a bunch of people's eyes. Danced that song through 14 or 15 times. Awesome sight! :dancer: :dancer:

11-18-2002, 11:27 AM	#15 (permalink)
park Junior Dancer Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 121	Standing up at the drum A lot of times those singers are being honored cuz it's their family song. You don't see that much outside OK.

11-18-2002, 11:49 AM	#16 (permalink)
R I Whiteside Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Mississippi Posts: 81	Gourd dance honoring It is sad that such a fine old tradition is being corrupted by over-use and inappropriate use. "Honoring" means "honoring," not "something for everyone." I have been to a couple of powwows where the same (anglo??) woman in buckskin brings out her lady-friend during a gourd dance honoring song to be honored also. No shawl, no pre-planning, nothing! The dancers look around confused, and then to prevent an embarrising situation, troop over to the woman and shell out a buck apiece. It's saddening more than disgusting. It makes it hard to keep smilin'