Zotigh

I've been reminesing 'bout grandpa. He took me and my brothers and cousins to so many dances. Would he recognize dances today? The open 'social' and 'ceremonial' dances...yeah, I think he would. But, the 'contest', pin the number squares on the dancers thing, called 'contest dances'....I don't think so.

Reading the posts in the other forums about who judges whom, and how did he/she win? etc... makes me sad.

This is the "Gourd Dance Forum". Nothing to do with 'contest powow', except that I read posts here saying, "..there was a contest dance at so-and-so, and we urged the sponsors to have a Gourd Dance there, too.."

Why?

Why did anyone promote a Gourd Dance at a commercial, pay-to-be-there contest dance? It boggles the mind.

I'm trying to come up with the analogy. Hmm...what social ceremony would your organization charge a fee to attend? "Welcome to my baptism...please pay $50 to watch." ?? "Thank you for coming to my wedding! But, you can't come in unless you pay me $20." ??

How is mixing an open social/ceremonial dance able to be mixed into the "Pay-per-view" contest dances that are springing up around the country?

I've been told, "..but, we let the Gourd Dancers in for free.."

Geez. Would anyone that knows why we dance Gourd Dance equate our dance to something that could be presented in a venue for folks to come pay to see?

If you were a dancing bear at some zoo to perform for spectators, maybe then you would probably not see the problem.

As a Kiowa man, and a member of the Gourd Clan, I see our Gourd Dance at a contest dance where folks pay to get admission to be contrary to the meaning of our dance.

I don't think that our Gourd Dance belongs in any way to be associated with any 'pay-to-participate' event.

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Scott Zotigh
Kiowa Black Leggings
Kiowa Gourd Clan
Kiowa Tiah Piah
Kiowa Marine Veterans
American Indian Veterans

Josiah

Never made sense to me either
I only know of a few dances around here that admission is charged to get into...
IICOT
Red Earth
And Tulsa Powwow

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streamhawk

Valid point Scott. I've been at a couple of places where after the gourd dance people clapped, makes me feel like, "you know, that wasn't danced for your entertainment."

afrost

You're right, "contest" does not belong in the Gourd Dance forum. I was pointing out something that i had not witnessed before, and my experience at Meeker was that they were advertising a "welcome Ute tribe" contest powwow. I traveled there thinking there would not be a gourd dance, but being the person that I am, I travel with my regalia. Someone from the Delta area convinced the coordinators to squeeze a gourd dance session into their carefully crafted schedule. (just a reminder, that these folks are new to Natives, not just powwows) they took the "suggestion" as a good sign to get those who wished to participate to come forward, so a gourd session was held. The people of the town do not know what protocol is or how to act at a powwow. It was a first for the Utes who were forced to leave their ancestral lands at gunpoint, that they were even invited to return! It was all in good faith and the people were humbled. I assure you that if and when there is a "2nd annual powwow" there won't be any clapping or feelings of being a bear in a zoo. It happened and nothing can change that. If we are to change the feelings of the past we need to be the teachers, and that is a golden opportunity that does not present itself very often. I will be back next year to see that it does not come off the same as it did this year.

Zotigh

Went to a contest dance in Austin last week. Watched a gourd session end with the spectators in the stands clapping. It felt weird.

Other than that, I like to go to contest dances. Enjoyed watching the dancers and shopping at the vendors. Not against contest dances at all. Like 'em.

But, I still feel awkward seeing our dance being used as a 'feature' of a contest dance.

I think that the Austin contest dance would have been just as popular and just as fun without having made our Gourd Dance a clapping show for spectators.

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Scott Zotigh
Kiowa Black Leggings
Kiowa Gourd Clan
Kiowa Tiah Piah
Kiowa Marine Veterans
American Indian Veterans

Tibiki Kinew

Kwey Kwey Scott, I couldn't agree with you more, the attitude has changed so much about sacredness that many are willing to put a price on anything. This makes me feel, not wierd but sick at heart. I make gourds for some people that request them from me and I would never want to see one of them being used under these circumstances.
Kinda like you said about the price for baptisms and all, what next see the body in the casket, $50.-, you all come down and clap~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Yuck! I hear you and understand, where has the respect gone!

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Listen to my heart, not just my mouth! The most powerfull thing we can do is,,,share,,, if we don't it dies with us.

The Children are our Future, without them we leave nothing behind but our silence...

Listen to the wind,,, it has so many secrets.... especially never assume who I am, you may get a surprize you are not ready for! Remember being Heyoka doesn't mean I am crazy, just having fun!!!
Born in Winnipeg raised in the Pikwakanagan, Deutschland was never home!

NancyJo

Scott,
Excuse me for jumping in on this forum.
We were at Austin, too. When people in the bleachers started clapping after a gourd dance........we all looked at each other and said "that's weird".....like you.
But I guess the audience just didn't understand what the gourd dance is.
It was just a weird feeling.
Good pow wow........Austin treated all the dancers pretty well.
I'm not to keen on the pow wows that you have to "pay" to dance.

streamhawk

Interesting you bring up this clapping thing Scott. There is a more local dance that I try to support, that is, how do I say, more "spectator oriented"...that I'm considering talking to the head staff this next year and asking that clapping for the gourd dance be refrained from. We're certainly not there to entertain.

park

Having been to the Austin dance many times over the years, when I heard the applause, I just think to myself: "Yeah. I just nailed that stop. Just NAILED it. Thank you. Thank you very much."

streamhawk

Park! I hafta remember that. Goot one.
Bill