Whatcha' think about.....

WhoMe · 07-23-2007, 10:14 PM

What do you think about gourd dancers who wear T-Shirts, Ball Caps, Cowboy Hats, Cowboy Boot and Chaps (*L Just seein' if you were payin' attention).

Whatcha' think?

**Josiah** · 07-24-2007, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhoMe

What do you think about gourd dancers who wear T-Shirts, Ball Caps, Cowboy Hats, Cowboy Boot and Chaps (*L Just seein' if you were payin' attention).

Whatcha' think?

Have not seen the Chaps thing

Use to see Cowboy hats alot now only occasionally and usually only older men

No ball caps,no T shirts

I was taught to wear your best
like going to church
I wear Dress slacks or Dockers
Long sleeve shirt that I can button at the collar and Nowdays a Tie that was made for me that has ribbon work on a three band cloth and my mocs...

Here is another question

If you saw this, would you say something to the person wearing it yourself or would you let the Head Gourd Dancer take care of it???

WhoMe · 07-24-2007, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josiah

Have not seen the Chaps thing

Use to see Cowboy hats alot now only occasionally and usually only older men

No ball caps,no T shirts

I was taught to wear your best
like going to church
I wear Dress slacks or Dockers
Long sleeve shirt that I can button at the collar and Nowdays a Tie that was made for me that has ribbon work on a three band cloth and my mocs...

Here is another question

If you saw this, would you say something to the person wearing it yourself or would you let the Head Gourd Dancer take care of it???

Oh

You askin'

me?

Heck, I'd just call security.

*L

**Josiah** · 07-24-2007, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhoMe

Oh

You askin'

me?

Heck, I'd just call security.

*L

LOL

Actually I was addressing everybody in General

Have you seen this lately???
BTW

**wardancer** · 07-24-2007, 07:41 PM

O.K. , I'll bite .
I was at Sedalia pow-wow this weekend. I actually commented on this very subject to a friend of mine. There were several men, dancing gourd , with t-shirts on .....and tennis shoes. I asked my friend if he knew where the respect went ! When I travel Ok. way I see the cowboy hat thang , but I haven't seen t-shirts there yet. And the ones with the dark shades bug me too !
When I Gourd dance I wear a white long sleeved dress shirt , my best jeans and mocs. Usually a bolo tie and Pendelton vest....I try to look my best !
I think the part that bothered me the most was that some of the offenders were ndn vets !
Respect has left out society in so many ways.......
I suppose it should be the A.D.s job.....maybe ???

CHEROSAGE · 07-25-2007, 01:37 AM

Wardancer and others: I was chastised, by an unnamed elder, about this same thing this weekend because I allowed it to go on. I was taught that it is all of our obligation to ensure that protocol is enforced.

I was taught that we dress as best we are able to dress. We must remember that not everyone has the same opertunities in life. I too try to dress well with out going to the three piece tuxedo. I was also taught that we do not wear ANY hats, a long sleeve shirt if possible, nice pants and Mocs. All of this with the Battle Blanket, Sash and Bandalier.

I have mentioned this many times before, but worth repeating. I blame most of this on those who just decide on their own that they will start dancing without being mentored and sponsored. Most of these dancers who do these weird things are usually without sponsorship and were not properly introduced. They are in error because they just don't know. They don't know because WE don't inform them to do what is right.

**streamhawk** · 07-25-2007, 11:21 AM

WhoMe, in regards to your question, I think it shows a lack of respect and a disregard to the reason one is out there dancing in the first place. I too try to wear my best, although I understand everyone's best may not be the same. At the same time, there are plenty of second hand shops if not the Salvation Army where one can pick up some good clothes for not much money. I still wear my ribbon shirts on occasion, but mostly dress much the same as Josiah stated, Dockers, mocs, dress shirt and beaded bolo. I must admit Wardancer, I have been guilty of wearing sunglasses on really bright days, more for trying to take care of my aging eyes, I take them off for grand entry, I'll put more thought into this one.

Josiah, I usually try to talk to the head gourd dancer when I see something that doesn't go along with protocol, since I believe that's part of the duties of that position, but if nothing happens, I've been known to voice my own opinion directly to the person.

Redstone · 07-25-2007, 01:24 PM

I agree with all of the posts so far. True some might not be able to afford new clothes, but you can dress your best with what you have. By that I mean, clean clothes and pressed. And yes, men, you can pick up a iron to press, does hurt. I was taught to dress the best you are able to, as you are respresenting your society, tribe and family. To be wearing T-shirts, ballcaps, and other weird things just cheapens the dance and disrespects the society and other gourd dancers.

Just my two cents.

Redstone · 07-25-2007, 01:25 PM

I agree with all of the posts so far. True some might not be able to afford new clothes, but you can dress your best with what you have. By that I mean, clean clothes and pressed. And yes, men, you can pick up a iron to press, does hurt. I was taught to dress the best you are able to, as you are respresenting your society, tribe and family. To be wearing T-shirts, ballcaps, and other weird things just cheapens the dance and disrespects the society and other gourd dancers.

Just my two cents.

Mr Bo Jangles · 07-25-2007, 02:07 PM

Removed!

**streamhawk** · 07-25-2007, 02:31 PM

swmming trunks? hmmm, m'k. There hasn't been alot of activity in the Gourd Dance section of the board, I think that may be about to change. Think I'll sit back with my lunch and keep an eye on this one. Just one question Mr. Bo, which songs are ya dancing to out there?

Steffan Redhawk · 07-25-2007, 02:39 PM

My best clothes are my regalia.

I made most of it myself, with help from my family.

I've been invited to gourd dances, and normally I see cowboy boots, slacks, long sleeve shirts, vests, cowboy hats, and bolo ties ( I think thats what those cowboy slider things are) then I see loose fans, and rattles...

I'm not commanche, I'm not kiowa, never claimed either, but I've been invited to dance..

I was told to wear your BEST CLOTHES, my interpretation was my regalia...

But lets just go back 200 years... What were they're best clothes?

Think someone would care if a dancer was barefoot? Think they'd care if they only had a breech on? Think they'd care if they didn't have a loose fan or rattle?

Would it matter if they couldn't afford tradecloth?

Lets go back another 200 years...

Show me some tradecloth now.

Traditions depend on the times, you can't make a new tradition, however, you can follow a guidline without breaking a rule... I'd rather see gourd dancers dancing, than avoiding it because others ridicule them.

I'd rather see people dancing at powwows, then avoiding it because they don't have feathers...

Remember, what you say molds minds, here, or in the circle, if you limit the feild to who or what you think is right, then perhaps its you that has a lack of teaching.

I was taught at a very young age, when you point a finger, you've got 3 more pointing back at you.

Just think about where the fancy dance came from... I've seen some of the original pictures... they didn't wear shorts, or shirts, or angora, some of them didn't wear mocs, or belts, or suspenders, they didn't have chokers or headbands, not all of them had armbustles, or whipsticks...

So, were they wrong, or are we? Traditions go hand in hand with evolution, 60 years ago, pressed slacks, and button down shirts were in every closet.

My little brother, you open up his closet, and it's all jerseys...

Wanna see his best? It's probably a cavaleir jumpsuit with matching running pants and shoes.

I dare anyone to tell me that he doesn't belong out there. You may feel that evolution is not apart of our life, and I'm sad to inform you, it is.

What I wear when I pray, is my choice, not yours, not a societies, but mine. As I said, I'm not kiowa, I'm not commanche, but I've never questioned my teachers or what I have been taught.

Maybe you should put on a pair of sunglasses, a wifebeater, a pair of sneakers, and say a few words in prayer... Then put on some slacks, take off the glasses, put on a dress shirt, and mocs or dress shoes, pick up a fan, and rattle, throw on your blanket, pray again, and tell me the difference.

superndngyrl · 07-25-2007, 05:01 PM

I've seen the cowboy hats but if you're in oklahoma and its the middle of afternoon... there's NO shade.

So they do what they do to keep the sun off their glistening scalps.

07-23-2007, 10:14 PM	#1 (permalink)
WhoMe PauWau Coordinator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Land of 370 Broken Treaties Posts: 5,560	Whatcha' think about..... What do you think about gourd dancers who wear T-Shirts, Ball Caps, Cowboy Hats, Cowboy Boot and Chaps (*L Just seein' if you were payin' attention). Whatcha' think? __________________ "Today, recognizing and respecting the origins of powwow aids in our Cultural Survival. If enough people break the rules because they are not satisfied...."We will have no culture." WhoMe

07-24-2007, 07:41 PM	#5 (permalink)
wardancer Don't be skurred ! Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: S.E. Kansas Posts: 11,291	O.K. , I'll bite . I was at Sedalia pow-wow this weekend. I actually commented on this very subject to a friend of mine. There were several men, dancing gourd , with t-shirts on .....and tennis shoes. I asked my friend if he knew where the respect went ! When I travel Ok. way I see the cowboy hat thang , but I haven't seen t-shirts there yet. And the ones with the dark shades bug me too ! When I Gourd dance I wear a white long sleeved dress shirt , my best jeans and mocs. Usually a bolo tie and Pendelton vest....I try to look my best ! I think the part that bothered me the most was that some of the offenders were ndn vets ! Respect has left out society in so many ways....... I suppose it should be the A.D.s job.....maybe ??? __________________ *I believe blood quantums are the governments way to breed us out of existance !* *Never wrestle with a pig....you both get dirty and the pig likes it !* Have A Stress Free Year ! The parties over...Back to work ! I'm not as good as I once was , but I'm as good once as I ever was !

07-25-2007, 01:37 AM	#6 (permalink)
CHEROSAGE Pow Wow Committee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: , mo Posts: 1,342	Wardancer and others: I was chastised, by an unnamed elder, about this same thing this weekend because I allowed it to go on. I was taught that it is all of our obligation to ensure that protocol is enforced. I was taught that we dress as best we are able to dress. We must remember that not everyone has the same opertunities in life. I too try to dress well with out going to the three piece tuxedo. I was also taught that we do not wear ANY hats, a long sleeve shirt if possible, nice pants and Mocs. All of this with the Battle Blanket, Sash and Bandalier. I have mentioned this many times before, but worth repeating. I blame most of this on those who just decide on their own that they will start dancing without being mentored and sponsored. Most of these dancers who do these weird things are usually without sponsorship and were not properly introduced. They are in error because they just don't know. They don't know because WE don't inform them to do what is right. __________________ BOB

07-25-2007, 02:07 PM	#10 (permalink)
Mr Bo Jangles Member since March 2000. Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Sunny, downtown, middle of no where... Posts: 699	Removed! __________________ "This next song goes out to some girls in dot com. They don't know who they are, but, it doesn't really matter anyway." "When the God's wish to punish us, they grant our prayers." O. Wilde Last edited by Mr Bo Jangles; 07-25-2007 at 03:21 PM. Reason: because I CAN!

07-25-2007, 02:39 PM	#12 (permalink)
Steffan Redhawk Northern Traditional Join Date: May 2006 Location: Battle Creek, Michigan Posts: 235	My best clothes are my regalia. I made most of it myself, with help from my family. I've been invited to gourd dances, and normally I see cowboy boots, slacks, long sleeve shirts, vests, cowboy hats, and bolo ties ( I think thats what those cowboy slider things are) then I see loose fans, and rattles... I'm not commanche, I'm not kiowa, never claimed either, but I've been invited to dance.. I was told to wear your BEST CLOTHES, my interpretation was my regalia... But lets just go back 200 years... What were they're best clothes? Think someone would care if a dancer was barefoot? Think they'd care if they only had a breech on? Think they'd care if they didn't have a loose fan or rattle? Would it matter if they couldn't afford tradecloth? Lets go back another 200 years... Show me some tradecloth now. Traditions depend on the times, you can't make a new tradition, however, you can follow a guidline without breaking a rule... I'd rather see gourd dancers dancing, than avoiding it because others ridicule them. I'd rather see people dancing at powwows, then avoiding it because they don't have feathers... Remember, what you say molds minds, here, or in the circle, if you limit the feild to who or what you think is right, then perhaps its you that has a lack of teaching. I was taught at a very young age, when you point a finger, you've got 3 more pointing back at you. Just think about where the fancy dance came from... I've seen some of the original pictures... they didn't wear shorts, or shirts, or angora, some of them didn't wear mocs, or belts, or suspenders, they didn't have chokers or headbands, not all of them had armbustles, or whipsticks... So, were they wrong, or are we? Traditions go hand in hand with evolution, 60 years ago, pressed slacks, and button down shirts were in every closet. My little brother, you open up his closet, and it's all jerseys... Wanna see his best? It's probably a cavaleir jumpsuit with matching running pants and shoes. I dare anyone to tell me that he doesn't belong out there. You may feel that evolution is not apart of our life, and I'm sad to inform you, it is. What I wear when I pray, is my choice, not yours, not a societies, but mine. As I said, I'm not kiowa, I'm not commanche, but I've never questioned my teachers or what I have been taught. Maybe you should put on a pair of sunglasses, a wifebeater, a pair of sneakers, and say a few words in prayer... Then put on some slacks, take off the glasses, put on a dress shirt, and mocs or dress shoes, pick up a fan, and rattle, throw on your blanket, pray again, and tell me the difference. __________________ AIM: GlacierESteffan Yahoo: low_rdr ICQ: 45338941 MSN: scifiwriter@hotmail.com Last edited by Steffan Redhawk; 07-25-2007 at 02:46 PM.

07-25-2007, 11:21 AM	#7 (permalink)
streamhawk fish soothsayer Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: AR Posts: 1,277	WhoMe, in regards to your question, I think it shows a lack of respect and a disregard to the reason one is out there dancing in the first place. I too try to wear my best, although I understand everyone's best may not be the same. At the same time, there are plenty of second hand shops if not the Salvation Army where one can pick up some good clothes for not much money. I still wear my ribbon shirts on occasion, but mostly dress much the same as Josiah stated, Dockers, mocs, dress shirt and beaded bolo. I must admit Wardancer, I have been guilty of wearing sunglasses on really bright days, more for trying to take care of my aging eyes, I take them off for grand entry, I'll put more thought into this one. Josiah, I usually try to talk to the head gourd dancer when I see something that doesn't go along with protocol, since I believe that's part of the duties of that position, but if nothing happens, I've been known to voice my own opinion directly to the person.

07-25-2007, 01:24 PM	#8 (permalink)
Redstone Numunnu Teh-da Puku Nu Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 230	I agree with all of the posts so far. True some might not be able to afford new clothes, but you can dress your best with what you have. By that I mean, clean clothes and pressed. And yes, men, you can pick up a iron to press, does hurt. I was taught to dress the best you are able to, as you are respresenting your society, tribe and family. To be wearing T-shirts, ballcaps, and other weird things just cheapens the dance and disrespects the society and other gourd dancers. Just my two cents.

07-25-2007, 01:25 PM	#9 (permalink)
Redstone Numunnu Teh-da Puku Nu Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 230	I agree with all of the posts so far. True some might not be able to afford new clothes, but you can dress your best with what you have. By that I mean, clean clothes and pressed. And yes, men, you can pick up a iron to press, does hurt. I was taught to dress the best you are able to, as you are respresenting your society, tribe and family. To be wearing T-shirts, ballcaps, and other weird things just cheapens the dance and disrespects the society and other gourd dancers. Just my two cents.

07-25-2007, 02:31 PM	#11 (permalink)
streamhawk fish soothsayer Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: AR Posts: 1,277	swmming trunks? hmmm, m'k. There hasn't been alot of activity in the Gourd Dance section of the board, I think that may be about to change. Think I'll sit back with my lunch and keep an eye on this one. Just one question Mr. Bo, which songs are ya dancing to out there?

07-25-2007, 05:01 PM	#13 (permalink)
superndngyrl photo fun Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: in front of the computer Posts: 4,295	I've seen the cowboy hats but if you're in oklahoma and its the middle of afternoon... there's NO shade. So they do what they do to keep the sun off their glistening scalps.

07-25-2007, 09:19 PM	#14 (permalink)
Z