kiowakat

nice find josiah!, I was there in 76-78 for their pow-wow and they had a couple of inductions....but when did they get the gourd dance from the Kiowa? just curious......

Josiah

I found this group on the internet they are called the Golden State Gourd Society.
here is a Website: Golden State Gourd Society --

__________________

Josiah

Second Annual Gourd Dance Set For Ponca Tribal Cultural Center
WHITE EAGLE — Members of the Ponca Gourd Dance Society are preparing for their second annual gourd dance to be held Saturday at the Ponca Tribal Cultural Center. Participants from across Oklahoma and from as far away as California are anticipated to be in attendance.

The Ponca Gourd Dance Society is in its second year of reactivation following a period of inactivity after originally being started in the late 1950s and 1960s. In those early days, a certain few members of the Ponca Tribe of Oklahoma traveled to Lawton.

These men were inducted into the Oklahoma Tiah-Piah Society by Nelson Big Bow, a member of the Kiowa Tribe of Oklahoma, thereby giving sanction to the Ponca tribe to perform the gourd dance. Over the past two years, descendants of those original members have worked to revive the Ponca Gourd Dance Society.

At last year’s very successful inaugural gourd dance, Big Bow, then 82 years of age, was in attendance as an honored guest. Leonard Cozad Jr., also a member of the Kiowa Tribe of Oklahoma, conducted ceremonies renewing the sanction of this previously given right and privilege. As a special gift, Cozad composed and presented to the society a special ceremonial song.

The Ponca Gourd Dance Society is honored for this year’s activities to be co-hosted by the Comanche Little Pony Society from the Lawton area. The Little Pony Society (“Teh Da Puku Nu”) is said to have been established by the Quahada band of Comanche a few centuries ago, its membership originally composed of warriors and medicine people. It continues as a warrior society today.

The Ponca Nation and the Comanche Nation have shared dance and song from the times of their first meeting. Some stories say the Comanche gave the Ponca their first horses, and that this action and other contacts between them established a long-lasting friendship and exchange of dance and song. The Ponca have shared the war dance (“Hethuska”) and songs with the Comanche. These special relationships continue today.

This year’s special honored guest will be Franklin Fireshaker from Ojai, Calif. An internationally known artist with paintings in many fine museums, including the Gilcrease Museum here in Oklahoma, and in private collections in Europe, Fireshaker is a respected elder of the Ponca Nation.

Serving in head staff positions include head singer, Leonard Cozad Jr. (Kiowa); head gourd dancer, Jim Roughface (Ponca); head lady dancer, Charisse Satepauhoodle (Kiowa/Osage); MC, the Rev. Thomas Roughface (Ponca); arena director, Kirby Feathers (Ponca); and water carrier, Danny Lee Page (Ponca).

Membership in the Ponca Gourd Dance Society is open to members of the Ponca Tribe of Oklahoma of all ages who participate in the gourd dance and also with other Native American and non-Indian gourd dancers associated with the Ponca Tribe of Oklahoma. The Ponca Gourd Dance Society has extended a hearty welcome and invitation to all other gourd dance organizations, community members and all visitors to come, enjoy and be a part of this celebration.

Doors of the Ponca Tribal Cultural Center will open at noon on Saturday with the afternoon gourd dance starting promptly at 2 p.m. An evening supper will be served at 5:30 p.m. to all in attendance. People are requested to bring their own table service and chairs. Evening activities will resume at 7 p.m. The Ponca Tribal Cultural Center is located 51Ž2 miles south of Ponca City, just west of U.S. 177 in the Ponca tribal community of White Eagle.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Copyright© Ponca City News, 1998






I am always fascinated when I find tidbits of information and when I can find cross references to certain facts
IN this case it says the Oklahoma Tia-Piah sanctioned the Ponca Gourd Dance Society and also the year (1997)

__________________

Josiah

Kiowa Gourd Clan
.........|
.........|
.........|----- Otoe Gourd Society
.........|
.........|
........./ (represents non-sanctioned by the Kiowa Gourd Clan)
.........|
.........|
.........|----- Kiowa Tiah Piah
.........|....................|
.........|....................|
.........|....................|----- Texas Tiah Piah
.........|....................|
.........|....................|
.........|....................|----- Gulf Coast Tiah Piah
.........|....................|
.........|....................|
.........|....................|----- Quapaw Intertribal Gourd Society
.........|....................|
.........|....................|
.........|....................|----- Memphis Tia Piah Big River Clan
.........|
.........|
.........|
.........|----- Oklahoma Tiah Piah
.........|....................|
.........|....................|
.........|....................|----- Ponca Gourd Dance Society (1997)


Here are the ones that I cant seem to confirm where they go:
Osage Gourd Clan
Cherokee Gourd Clan
Golden State Gourd Society
White Star Gourd Clan
RedStar Gourd Dance Society
Northeast Gourd Dance Clan

__________________

Josiah

Here is an entry i found on a musuem website cant confirm the info yet but....

Gourd dance blanket.
péxe wachígaxe waín. péxe 'gourd', wachígaxe 'dance', waín 'blanket'.

Wool cloth, cotton binding, various medals. Worn by members of the Omaha Tia-Piah Society, a southern plains veteran's dance that was gifted to the Omaha people in the late 1960s from the Kiowa. Veterans often display their combat pins and other medals on the blanket. Initiated into the Omaha Tia-Piah Society in 1973, Awakuni-Swetland displays various academic medals and honors on the blanket.


Omaha Material Culture - Omaha Language Curriculum Development

__________________

timmy tiger

I have a question for Gourd Society Dancers (please forgive me if I am saying it wrong). I was in OK a few years back and my girlfriend whose father is a Tiai-Piah society dancer and we went to one of these dances while I was there. It was wonderful. As I sat there watching all the dancing and listening to what I could hear, he was a few people down from me explaining to his grandson about the dance and where it came from and some of how it started. I couldn't hear all that much, but the bits that I did hear sounded nice to me. I hadn't been to anything like (since I am not from OK)that and it was so nice to see something different.

Now for my question. We have run accross a gentleman who says that he is a Gourd Dancer and stated that for years. Just recently (in the past two years) we find that he says that he is a member of the: Cheyenne/arapahoe Silver Star Hawk Gourd Dance Society and that he was inducted in 1975 in Anadarko, OK. Does this society exist? Someone told us that he goes to Indiana to Gourd Dance and I don't know anythigng about that and my grilfriend doesn't believe it. Just wanted to know from anyone from there is this is actual?
Thanx

powwowbum49

Josiah

Keep in mind that not all the groups that are called societies are true clans/societies like Kiowa gourd clan. For most of the groups it is not a true ceremonial. As gourd dancing became mainstreamed into Oklahoma powwows group sprang up that did not view the dance the same as Kiowa gourd clan. There are many groups around the country and even in Oklahoma that are more like powwow club than societies. I think these groups could have chosen better terms than clan or society to have in their names since that implies a ceremonial to me, but hey they never ask my opinion. They are made up of people that enjoy gourd dancing and want to promote it. Many of the groups are tax exempt organizations that provide aid to others. White star for example works every year to collect funds that it donates to a Kiowa education fund that provides college scholarships for Kiowa kids that are attending or planning to attend University.

Are all these groups sanctioned by the Kiowa... I very seriously doubt it. Are they accepted and welcomed by the Kiowa...by some Kiowa yes and others no. I know White star has been ask to Co Host dances in Oklahoma with other Kiowa groups, but to my knowledge it is not a "sanctioned" group.

Also keep in mind that other tribes claim to be originators of the dance and have promoted it's spreading as well. I doubt these groups/clan/societies ask the Kiowa if it is ok to give the dance to others.

just some food for thought

__________________
PB49

"Every child is an artist. The problem is how to remain an artist once we grow up." Pablo Picasso


My comments are based on what I have been taught and my experiences over the years I have been around the circle. They should in no way be taken as gospel truths and are merely my opinions or attempts at passing on what I have learned while still learning more.

2kiowa4u

from what's been told to me and many other Kiowa's, our dance has a very serious meaning to our lives as Kiowa. Other tribes again claim sort of origination which is a misnomer and only the Kiowas are the sole owners of this dance and song. i'm not going into detail why, but like i've stated in other post on this website, THIS IS A KIOWA DANCE! HAS BEEN SINCE THE CREATION OF TIME OF OUR PEOPLE WHEN THEY DWELLED IN THE CANANDIAN ROCKIES AND NORTHERN TERRITORY OF MONTANA. IT WASN'T GIVEN TO ANY OTHER TRIBE BUT THE KIOWAS, IN THE LATTER YEARS THROUGH PEACE WITH OTHER TRIBES THIS DANCE WAS GIVEN TO SHOW THEIR BROTHERHOOD AND ALLIANCE AND THIS IS WHERE ALOT OF YOU PEOPLE MISUNDERSTAND AND TAKE THIS OUT OF CONTEXT THAT OTHER TRIBES HAD THIS DANCE. WHEN THE KIOWA'S BACK THEN MEANT FOR THIS DANCE TO BE TAKEN CARE OF PROPERLY AND ORDERLY MANNER BUT THEN THE YOUNGER GENERATION EITHER LOST INTEREST OR DIDN'T FOLLOW PROTOCOL AND MADE UP THINGS AS THEY WENT ON WITH THIS DANCE. THEREFORE, YOU GET THINGS MESSED UP AND MISINTERPRETED AND SOCIETIES OF MEN TRY TO CLAIM SANCTION BY THESE KIOWA'S GOURD DANCE GROUPS SOLELY BECAUSE OF MEMBERSHIP OR TO BE LOOKED UP TO OR THEY CLAIM OWNERSHIP TO THIS DANCE WHEN ORIGIN COMES FROM THE RED WOLF FAMILY AND DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THE MEANING BEHIND THE HISTORY OF HOW RED WOLF WAS GIVEN THIS SONG FIRST AND THEN THE DANCE AND FEAST. I SAY THIS BECAUSE I'M FROM THE KINEP BAND AND THE REE BAND OF THE KIOWA. AH-HOOOOE!! SAUT-GYAH-DAH

Josiah

This is precisely my point in all of this
I am very aware that this is a very special dance to the Kiowa
and very old!!!
But in modern times after it was revived (1950's) It has been giving to other tribes and groups
I was trying to see to whom...
There are alot of very Knowledgable people on this website
and After reading the Post that Zotigh posted a few years back I saw that that woould be a good thing to know how many groups were out there and where did they come from...

I am very aware that there are groups that spring up and just do there own thing...
But I am also fasinated to find for instance the Omaha seem to have took the time to come to Oklahoma and do things the "Proper Way" All the way from Nebraska!!!

__________________

Josiah

I will ask some CNA's that I know about this group...
But it has been in my experience the CNA's Gourd Dance yes, but dont ask the Kiowas to do so. So the idea that he was inducted in Anadarko in 1975 into a CNA Gourd Society by the CNA's I would find hard to believe since Anadarko is Kiowa country. Now if he had said Geary or Watonga or even Concho it could be plausible in a sorts because those are areas that the CNA's live.

CNA= Cheyenne and Arapaho

__________________

timmy tiger

Josiah

Thank you for asking about it. We have been wondering for so long. Every once in a while he would say something about OK and Anadarko infront of my friend. We believed that it was just to get her attention and fit in around her and other's. I'm glad that I found this site and maybe now will get the answer to a long time question of ours.