A history of the Gourd Dance. - Page 6

redsky · 12-05-2004, 09:19 PM

Zotigh,

Yeah, its been a little boring without your posts.

KiowaFivebabe · 08-27-2005, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miss tradish

I don't see you at black leggins, kiowa gourd clan, etc.

you probably did see me but never paid any attention....but i see people and i've never seen you....

I am also a Kiowa and getting on this forum alittle late, but to answer your question about Scott, he does make it to Blackleggings as much as he can. I have danced and honored him on many occassions at Indian City. I have also seen him dance at the Gourd Clan and was glad to see him participate. But I myself have not participated at Carnegie for years, but do support Mr. Tsoodle and his family in many ways as possible.

Camp7Kiowa · 09-20-2005, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NDNTacO49

My first name begins with a K..... My Family are the Botones

My first name starts with a "M"... I would like to buy a vowel, please! Ay-Nay-Nay-Nay!!!!

Zotigh · 10-05-2005, 12:09 AM

Wikipedia :P

[Edit: This was in reply to "Historian" who was quoting verbatim the Wikipedia entry (www.wikipedia.com) regarding the Kiowa tribe and asking whether his "research" was accurate. His post is now gone...wierd (*cough* moderator power abuse *cough*)..so this post I made now seems out of place.]

Zotigh · 10-05-2005, 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiowa

After 1840 the Kiowas joined forces with their former enemies, the Cheyennes, as well as the Comanches and the Apaches, to fight and raid the Eastern natives then moving into the Indian Territory. The United States military intervened, and in the Treaty of Medicine Lodge of 1867 the Kiowa agreed to settle on a reservation in southwestern Oklahoma. Some bands of Kiowas remained at large until...

The "my research.." is what gained you negative respect points, Wikipedia.

Zotigh · 10-05-2005, 05:04 AM

www.wikipedia.com is, btw, a great resource of knowledge regarding uncountable topics. A community built encyclopedia, where folks contribute to the entries contained therein. (he actually quoted part of the entry I made...lol).

Just not promoting using entries there as your own "research".

http://www.wikipedia.com

kiowakat · 10-05-2005, 09:06 PM

Hi Scott
Aho! happy to see you. I haven't talked with you very much I'm still meeting people. I'm glad you are doing better:)...My name is Kathy I am also Kiowa,I'm decendent of Haungooah Silverhorn, also decendent of the Tongkeamha's and Stumblingbear's, I been enjoying you sharing our history, I have nothing to add this subject dang lol, but I wanted to say hi and I have carnegie pictures on my website...I took alot of pictures and I can say that I don't post any pictures that are showing any sacred Kiowa Items!! I respect the Kiowa ways and I also try to teach about tribal identity through my craftwork I hope you enjoy.

p.s. that was a hint to vote for me in th e 2005 craft contest finals.... ayeeeeeeee.....LOL

Zotigh · 10-05-2005, 09:32 PM

Hey! Nice to meet you, ma'am!

I'm looking at your site right now. WOW! Awesome!!

Made me stand up when I first got in there, though! :D

The drawings your grandfather made have facinated me since I was young. I've looked at them for hours and hours.

Thank you for sharing your site, Kathy.

tribaltagz · 10-23-2006, 03:54 PM

**Josiah** · 01-16-2008, 01:12 PM

Yes KiowaKat can makes some boots that will make your head spin

LWB · 01-18-2008, 10:56 AM

Just droped in to say A BIG thank you to Kat for sharing her pics with all of us on her web site . Went there last night & stayed for hours ,Great stuff , seen alot of old faces i havent seen in years , esp. liked the pic of my younger brother danceing b/t Boots & Bruce . I didnt get to go the year he was brought in , so it was really nice to get to see that . Once again a BIG Thank You Kat

tha mom · 02-21-2008, 01:54 PM

I agree whole heartedly with learning and practicing your own tribal dances and customs. Just to follow what everyone else on the powwow trail is doing isn't right. At one time my daughters wanted to learn to Jingle Dance. My mother(RIP) got on to them and asked them how do they know that they have the right to do this dance? What do they know about why this dance is done and so fourth. So that was the end of them wanting to dance Jingle. They have both grown into fine young Yakama women that know the Yakama ways. I think that if you are adopted into some other tribe and that things are conducted in the right way. You have permission from the correct people etc. Then and only then practice what they have taught you. I am enrolled Yakama, I am also half Creek. I have been adopted by a Ponca family and by a Kiowa family. But still I don't feel comfortable practicing their tribal way of dressing and dancing. So I just live and dance what I grew up doing. Although I love and respect the families that adopted me.

tha mom · 02-21-2008, 03:38 PM

Sorry if my post seems a little off the subject.....I think I just just in on the subject a lil late. My father was Creek and my mother was Yakama........neither of them was blond.........I'm not blond either! Although my posts my make it seem otherwise!

Zotigh · 06-15-2008, 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tha mom

I agree whole heartedly with learning and practicing your own tribal dances and customs. Just to follow what everyone else on the powwow trail is doing isn't right. At one time my daughters wanted to learn to Jingle Dance. My mother(RIP) got on to them and asked them how do they know that they have the right to do this dance? What do they know about why this dance is done and so fourth. So that was the end of them wanting to dance Jingle. They have both grown into fine young Yakama women that know the Yakama ways.

Huge respect to you, ma'am. Thank you for sharing that anecdote.

I would no more take your tribe's dance for my own and give it to my daughters to dance than you would take my tribe's dance and give it to yours. Thank you.

It's not about 'sanctioning' or 'permission'. It's about simple respect, as you have demonstrated. It's about allowing the owners of a dance or song to gift such to others at their will.

I am impressed with and applaud your approach to the handling of that matter with your daughters. Fluffy words aside...you make me very proud, ma'am.

Thank you.

jweare · 06-22-2008, 12:49 AM

I am Kiowa. Proud to be such as well. I dont think graydog is getting it. Sure the ability to learn is a great gift from our creator. But then again so is free will. But then again even more so, are our tribal traditions. I agree with zotigh ( strong kiowa name I might add. Almost as strong as Ware...aaaaaa.. ) we should focus on our tribal traditions. No one is going to tell you that you cant dance. (unless youre acting looney and/or disrespectful) I believe red wolf gave the songs with the intention of passing on the medicine. Enjoy the medicine greydog. It is good. But what I think zotigh is saying is, there is also medicine in your tribe. Perhaps even better for you as a member of that tribe because it is YOUR people. The stomp dance and its medicine would not do for me as a kiowa , what it would do for you as a cherokee.

It is good that you enjoy the medicine and the ways of our people. Keep that sacred forever in your heart, however , move your focus, to learning more about your people. I do not mean this in a bad way. I do not mean to offend you or say you cant dance this dance. I am in no place to do so. I only speak for one KIOWA. That is me.

10-05-2005, 12:09 AM	#104 (permalink)
Zotigh USMC Join Date: May 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 289	Wikipedia :P [Edit: This was in reply to "Historian" who was quoting verbatim the Wikipedia entry (www.wikipedia.com) regarding the Kiowa tribe and asking whether his "research" was accurate. His post is now gone...wierd (cough moderator power abuse cough)..so this post I made now seems out of place.] __________________ Scott Zotigh Kiowa Black Leggings Kiowa Gourd Clan Kiowa Tiah Piah Kiowa Marine Veterans American Indian Veterans Last edited by Zotigh; 10-06-2005 at 10:18 PM.

10-05-2005, 05:04 AM	#106 (permalink)
Zotigh USMC Join Date: May 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 289	www.wikipedia.com is, btw, a great resource of knowledge regarding uncountable topics. A community built encyclopedia, where folks contribute to the entries contained therein. (he actually quoted part of the entry I made...lol). Just not promoting using entries there as your own "research". http://www.wikipedia.com __________________ Scott Zotigh Kiowa Black Leggings Kiowa Gourd Clan Kiowa Tiah Piah Kiowa Marine Veterans American Indian Veterans Last edited by Zotigh; 10-06-2005 at 10:27 PM.

10-05-2005, 09:32 PM	#108 (permalink)
Zotigh USMC Join Date: May 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 289	Hey! Nice to meet you, ma'am! I'm looking at your site right now. WOW! Awesome!! Made me stand up when I first got in there, though! :D The drawings your grandfather made have facinated me since I was young. I've looked at them for hours and hours. Thank you for sharing your site, Kathy. __________________ Scott Zotigh Kiowa Black Leggings Kiowa Gourd Clan Kiowa Tiah Piah Kiowa Marine Veterans American Indian Veterans

10-23-2006, 03:54 PM	#109 (permalink)
tribaltagz pow-wow gear central! Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Jay, OKlahoma Posts: 56	permissions to dance Last edited by tribaltagz; 10-25-2006 at 10:55 AM.

01-16-2008, 01:12 PM	#110 (permalink)
Josiah PowWows.com Addicts Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Oklahoma City Oklahoma USA Posts: 4,492 Blog Entries: 4	Yes KiowaKat can makes some boots that will make your head spin __________________

12-05-2004, 09:19 PM	#101 (permalink)
redsky Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 28	Zotigh, Yeah, its been a little boring without your posts.

10-05-2005, 09:06 PM	#107 (permalink)
kiowakat Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: St.Louis Posts: 1,243	Hi Scott Aho! happy to see you. I haven't talked with you very much I'm still meeting people. I'm glad you are doing better:)...My name is Kathy I am also Kiowa,I'm decendent of Haungooah Silverhorn, also decendent of the Tongkeamha's and Stumblingbear's, I been enjoying you sharing our history, I have nothing to add this subject dang lol, but I wanted to say hi and I have carnegie pictures on my website...I took alot of pictures and I can say that I don't post any pictures that are showing any sacred Kiowa Items!! I respect the Kiowa ways and I also try to teach about tribal identity through my craftwork I hope you enjoy. p.s. that was a hint to vote for me in th e 2005 craft contest finals.... ayeeeeeeee.....LOL

01-18-2008, 10:56 AM	#111 (permalink)
LWB Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: thorn in your side Posts: 29	Great pics Just droped in to say A BIG thank you to Kat for sharing her pics with all of us on her web site . Went there last night & stayed for hours ,Great stuff , seen alot of old faces i havent seen in years , esp. liked the pic of my younger brother danceing b/t Boots & Bruce . I didnt get to go the year he was brought in , so it was really nice to get to see that . Once again a BIG Thank You Kat

02-21-2008, 01:54 PM	#112 (permalink)
tha mom Junior Dancer Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Wapato,Washington Posts: 171	I agree whole heartedly with learning and practicing your own tribal dances and customs. Just to follow what everyone else on the powwow trail is doing isn't right. At one time my daughters wanted to learn to Jingle Dance. My mother(RIP) got on to them and asked them how do they know that they have the right to do this dance? What do they know about why this dance is done and so fourth. So that was the end of them wanting to dance Jingle. They have both grown into fine young Yakama women that know the Yakama ways. I think that if you are adopted into some other tribe and that things are conducted in the right way. You have permission from the correct people etc. Then and only then practice what they have taught you. I am enrolled Yakama, I am also half Creek. I have been adopted by a Ponca family and by a Kiowa family. But still I don't feel comfortable practicing their tribal way of dressing and dancing. So I just live and dance what I grew up doing. Although I love and respect the families that adopted me. __________________ *THA MOM* YAKAMA/CREEK

02-21-2008, 03:38 PM	#113 (permalink)
tha mom Junior Dancer Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Wapato,Washington Posts: 171	Sorry if my post seems a little off the subject.....I think I just just in on the subject a lil late. My father was Creek and my mother was Yakama........neither of them was blond.........I'm not blond either! Although my posts my make it seem otherwise! __________________ *THA MOM* YAKAMA/CREEK

06-22-2008, 12:49 AM	#115 (permalink)
jweare Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 1	People just dont get it I am Kiowa. Proud to be such as well. I dont think graydog is getting it. Sure the ability to learn is a great gift from our creator. But then again so is free will. But then again even more so, are our tribal traditions. I agree with zotigh ( strong kiowa name I might add. Almost as strong as Ware...aaaaaa.. ) we should focus on our tribal traditions. No one is going to tell you that you cant dance. (unless youre acting looney and/or disrespectful) I believe red wolf gave the songs with the intention of passing on the medicine. Enjoy the medicine greydog. It is good. But what I think zotigh is saying is, there is also medicine in your tribe. Perhaps even better for you as a member of that tribe because it is YOUR people. The stomp dance and its medicine would not do for me as a kiowa , what it would do for you as a cherokee. It is good that you enjoy the medicine and the ways of our people. Keep that sacred forever in your heart, however , move your focus, to learning more about your people. I do not mean this in a bad way. I do not mean to offend you or say you cant dance this dance. I am in no place to do so. I only speak for one KIOWA. That is me.