Hats in the arena

bqueton · 01-22-2004, 09:02 PM

Why is that I see everyone put on a cowboy hat or ball cap to go out and gourd dance now? I was taught to take my hat off when I go into the arena to dance.

I first noticed when I went to a gourd dance in Canoncito, NM. I was the opposite of everyone. When the songs started I took off my hat while everyone else put theirs on. And vice versa coming out of the arena.

When I was growing up, no matter how ho the sun glared down all my grandfathers always took off their hats to dance in the arena.

travelingmocs · 01-22-2004, 09:12 PM

I have seen many pictures and, been to many dances were people wear cowboy hats. And those pocs I have seen are from the sixties, in Kiowa and Comanche country. Now as to ball caps, you should not wear them. I am used to seeing otter caps used also.

CHEROSAGE · 01-23-2004, 12:51 AM

I like bqueton have been taught not to wear any hats into the gourd dance. I was taught that the only head wear can be the Otter Turbin, not even a Roach.

I have noticed that many, especially non-Indian, wear their hats even inside. I have also seen some elders wear a western hat on extremely hot sunny days. Most of these Hat wearers are also those that do not fully understand the way and do odd things during the dance.

These are things I was taught and some observations.

CHEROSAGE · 01-23-2004, 12:56 AM

I also wanted to add that this thread is semilar to the idea of whether or not to wear boots/shoes or MOCS.

"Barefoot is not an option here."

CEM · 01-27-2004, 12:47 PM

I was at a gourd dance in Anadarko a couple of years ago. The group I was with had on matching hats. The man leading the dance frequently got up to talk about gourd dancing, and talked about not being sure when people started wearing baseball hats while gourd dancing. He pointed out a man wearing an otter hat/turban and mentioned that when the gourd dance got started back up those hats were the only ones people wore. In a very nice way he told us to take our hats off and told some great stories.

CEM

**Dancin by the bay** · 01-27-2004, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bqueton
Why is that I see everyone put on a cowboy hat or ball cap to go out and gourd dance now? I was taught to take my hat off when I go into the arena to dance.

I first noticed when I went to a gourd dance in Canoncito, NM. I was the opposite of everyone. When the songs started I took off my hat while everyone else put theirs on. And vice versa coming out of the arena.

When I was growing up, no matter how ho the sun glared down all my grandfathers always took off their hats to dance in the arena.

Why no hats in the arena. I don't wear hats even when I'm not at pow wwows but whats the reason for not being able to wear it in the arena? I've seen the vets wear hats are they supposed to take it off to?

Tibiki Kinew · 01-28-2004, 06:37 AM

I grew up being told that only those with an eagle feather on their hats were allowed tokeep them on,,, up here I have seen others wear hats too but remove them all during grand entry. Other than that they all wear them. I wear mine too, even with the eagle feather on my left side and a snowy owl feather on my right side. But during Grand entry, mine is in my hands, never on my head. It was the way I was raised! My 2 cents for today!

Miss_Kiowa · 01-28-2004, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tibiki Kinew
I grew up being told that only those with an eagle feather on their hats were allowed tokeep them on,,, up here I have seen others wear hats too but remove them all during grand entry. Other than that they all wear them. I wear mine too, even with the eagle feather on my left side and a snowy owl feather on my right side. But during Grand entry, mine is in my hands, never on my head. It was the way I was raised! My 2 cents for today!

Yo-o-o-o...

If you're gourd dancing, you may want to rethink that owl feather. Gourd dancing is originally a Kiowa dance, as I'm sure has been pounded in your head from every side if you read the other threads in this board, :Chatter and Kiowas consider the owl a really bad omen. If you were to wear an owl feather to a gourd dance around here, I'm sure you'd be told to remove it.

Just something to consider.

CHEROSAGE · 01-28-2004, 10:39 PM

I agree with and echo the idea that the Owl feather should not be present in the gourd dance. You WOULD probably be asked to remove it and/or yourself, though you may be the only person around to dance for a while. I have seen people leave an arena when unknowing people wear Owl feathers into a dance.

Not to be hateful, just respectful.

ron red eagle · 01-29-2004, 09:57 AM

I wear a red tailed hawk feather in my western hat, but when I'm in the circle, it comes off. Mainly because I was taught, when in a sacred place, the hat comes off. Now, when I join in with the Veteran dance, my hat stays on.

I wasn't aware of the owl feather with the Kiowa so thanks for the info!!!! :)

Tibiki Kinew · 01-29-2004, 10:10 AM

I only received the snowy owl feather a while back and it is loose on the brim, it gets removed for intertribal, the only time I go out now,,, I realize to that the owl feather is an omen to some folks, but as well he is one of my totems so I wear the feather most of the time in honor of the gift, it came from a wisdom keeper in my area. And yes I was told to remove it when I dance,,, so the only feather is the one on my right that is a permanent fixture. The eagle feather has been in my care since 1986 when I got it from a Medicine man from Erie Ontario.

Peacekeeper83 · 01-30-2004, 12:00 PM

I was taught the same...nothing covers the top of your head when you gourd dance..only appropriate headwear is the otter turban...just like we are to wear long sleeved shirts..tucked in..
ect....

bqueton · 01-30-2004, 12:14 PM

i would have to say that although i don't see it as being a general rule, i do think that all these people that come out to gourd dance in t-shirts and baseball caps are dressed very inappropriatly. i can see wearing a cowboy hat on sunnydays, but is it appropriate indoors. to me, gourd dance is somewhat like going into a church, when you go into that arena, treat it with the highest respect.

ron red eagle · 01-30-2004, 12:19 PM

My apologies, I should have been a bit more clearer. I dont Gourd Dance at all, 1 I dont know how, 2 because Kiowa, but when in a sacred place my Hat comes off, unless its the vetrans dance, then it stays on, or if Im outside the circle.

01-22-2004, 09:02 PM	#1 (permalink)
bqueton Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 92	Hats in the arena Why is that I see everyone put on a cowboy hat or ball cap to go out and gourd dance now? I was taught to take my hat off when I go into the arena to dance. I first noticed when I went to a gourd dance in Canoncito, NM. I was the opposite of everyone. When the songs started I took off my hat while everyone else put theirs on. And vice versa coming out of the arena. When I was growing up, no matter how ho the sun glared down all my grandfathers always took off their hats to dance in the arena.

01-22-2004, 09:12 PM	#2 (permalink)
travelingmocs Teen Dancer Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: HogPit, U.S.A. and raised in hell Posts: 286	I have seen many pictures and, been to many dances were people wear cowboy hats. And those pocs I have seen are from the sixties, in Kiowa and Comanche country. Now as to ball caps, you should not wear them. I am used to seeing otter caps used also. __________________ If I do not know the answer someone else will!!!! Also forgive me, this system does not have a spell check so forgive the bad spelling

01-23-2004, 12:51 AM	#3 (permalink)
CHEROSAGE Pow Wow Committee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: , mo Posts: 1,316	I like bqueton have been taught not to wear any hats into the gourd dance. I was taught that the only head wear can be the Otter Turbin, not even a Roach. I have noticed that many, especially non-Indian, wear their hats even inside. I have also seen some elders wear a western hat on extremely hot sunny days. Most of these Hat wearers are also those that do not fully understand the way and do odd things during the dance. These are things I was taught and some observations. __________________ BOB

01-23-2004, 12:56 AM	#4 (permalink)
CHEROSAGE Pow Wow Committee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: , mo Posts: 1,316	I also wanted to add that this thread is semilar to the idea of whether or not to wear boots/shoes or MOCS. "Barefoot is not an option here." __________________ BOB

01-28-2004, 06:37 AM	#7 (permalink)
Tibiki Kinew Listen to my heart! Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Pikwakanagan, Yes Golden Lake Ontario Posts: 652	I grew up being told that only those with an eagle feather on their hats were allowed tokeep them on,,, up here I have seen others wear hats too but remove them all during grand entry. Other than that they all wear them. I wear mine too, even with the eagle feather on my left side and a snowy owl feather on my right side. But during Grand entry, mine is in my hands, never on my head. It was the way I was raised! My 2 cents for today! __________________ Listen to my heart, not just my mouth! The most powerfull thing we can do is,,,share,,, if we don't it dies with us. The Children are our Future, without them we leave nothing behind but our silence... Listen to the wind,,, it has so many secrets.... especially never assume who I am, you may get a surprize you are not ready for! Remember being Heyoka doesn't mean I am crazy, just having fun!!! Born in Winnipeg raised in the Pikwakanagan, Deutschland was never home!

01-27-2004, 12:47 PM	#5 (permalink)
CEM Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 98	I was at a gourd dance in Anadarko a couple of years ago. The group I was with had on matching hats. The man leading the dance frequently got up to talk about gourd dancing, and talked about not being sure when people started wearing baseball hats while gourd dancing. He pointed out a man wearing an otter hat/turban and mentioned that when the gourd dance got started back up those hats were the only ones people wore. In a very nice way he told us to take our hats off and told some great stories. CEM

01-28-2004, 10:39 PM	#9 (permalink)
CHEROSAGE Pow Wow Committee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: , mo Posts: 1,316	I agree with and echo the idea that the Owl feather should not be present in the gourd dance. You WOULD probably be asked to remove it and/or yourself, though you may be the only person around to dance for a while. I have seen people leave an arena when unknowing people wear Owl feathers into a dance. Not to be hateful, just respectful. __________________ BOB

01-29-2004, 09:57 AM	#10 (permalink)
ron red eagle Champion Dancer Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Tenn Posts: 1,183	I wear a red tailed hawk feather in my western hat, but when I'm in the circle, it comes off. Mainly because I was taught, when in a sacred place, the hat comes off. Now, when I join in with the Veteran dance, my hat stays on. I wasn't aware of the owl feather with the Kiowa so thanks for the info!!!! :) __________________ Ezaasakwaadek-bkwezhigan ndaa miijin ~Though I wear a shirt and tie I'm still part red man deep inside!~ <Paul Revere and the Raiders> A very wise old Chief (Archie Mosay) once said to listen carefully when a White man tells you specifically that he won't do this or that, because more often than not he is telling you EXACTLY what he IS about to do.

01-29-2004, 10:10 AM	#11 (permalink)
Tibiki Kinew Listen to my heart! Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Pikwakanagan, Yes Golden Lake Ontario Posts: 652	I only received the snowy owl feather a while back and it is loose on the brim, it gets removed for intertribal, the only time I go out now,,, I realize to that the owl feather is an omen to some folks, but as well he is one of my totems so I wear the feather most of the time in honor of the gift, it came from a wisdom keeper in my area. And yes I was told to remove it when I dance,,, so the only feather is the one on my right that is a permanent fixture. The eagle feather has been in my care since 1986 when I got it from a Medicine man from Erie Ontario. __________________ Listen to my heart, not just my mouth! The most powerfull thing we can do is,,,share,,, if we don't it dies with us. The Children are our Future, without them we leave nothing behind but our silence... Listen to the wind,,, it has so many secrets.... especially never assume who I am, you may get a surprize you are not ready for! Remember being Heyoka doesn't mean I am crazy, just having fun!!! Born in Winnipeg raised in the Pikwakanagan, Deutschland was never home!

01-30-2004, 12:00 PM	#12 (permalink)
Peacekeeper83 a Peace of......... Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: just where the southern plains end...and the hill country begin... Posts: 1,081	I was taught the same...nothing covers the top of your head when you gourd dance..only appropriate headwear is the otter turban...just like we are to wear long sleeved shirts..tucked in.. ect.... __________________ We spend a lifetime worrying about if we make a difference....Marines don't have that problem.

01-30-2004, 12:14 PM	#13 (permalink)
bqueton Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 92	i would have to say that although i don't see it as being a general rule, i do think that all these people that come out to gourd dance in t-shirts and baseball caps are dressed very inappropriatly. i can see wearing a cowboy hat on sunnydays, but is it appropriate indoors. to me, gourd dance is somewhat like going into a church, when you go into that arena, treat it with the highest respect.

01-30-2004, 12:19 PM	#14 (permalink)
ron red eagle Champion Dancer Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Tenn Posts: 1,183	My apologies, I should have been a bit more clearer. I dont Gourd Dance at all, 1 I dont know how, 2 because Kiowa, but when in a sacred place my Hat comes off, unless its the vetrans dance, then it stays on, or if Im outside the circle. __________________ Ezaasakwaadek-bkwezhigan ndaa miijin ~Though I wear a shirt and tie I'm still part red man deep inside!~ <Paul Revere and the Raiders> A very wise old Chief (Archie Mosay) once said to listen carefully when a White man tells you specifically that he won't do this or that, because more often than not he is telling you EXACTLY what he IS about to do.