WhoMe

Should there be a head little boy and/or head woman gourd dancer? How out of hand can this get? Are we breaking away from tradition or simply making up new regional protocol?

TWDBear

NO, there shouldn't be either one.

So many "indians" are wanting to create their own traditions to fit their personal ideas of what things should be.

Imo, it's as bad as a powwow organizer/host deciding to start having a "Powwow Prince" (who was to be his own son). It became a big joke among the people there and the powwow died out within a year.

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DANCING IS EVERYTHING!!!!

I love my tipi's. I'll never be homeless with them.

History is written by the winners.

CHEROSAGE

I'm not sure this is the right area for this thread. This probably should be in Native issues or something like that.

Women Gourd dancers has other threads to go to.

Thanks guys.

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BOB

WhoMe

I have to respectfully disagree. This is the exact thread this issue needs to be addressed.

The lead question is should there be a little boy and/or women head gourd dancers.

The powwow dancing > gourd dance forum houses the most viewers that would have an interest in this subject. Gourd dancing is primary and head dancers is secondary.

I wouldn't post this question on another forum that has people "who have no gourd dance knowledge."

TWDBear

i agree, if it has to do with gourd dancing, then it should be here.

just as the thread about women gourd dancing.

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DANCING IS EVERYTHING!!!!

I love my tipi's. I'll never be homeless with them.

History is written by the winners.

CHEROSAGE

OK, I understand where you are trying to go with this and may be interested.

I don't really see, personally, where this is an issue since the Women aren't Gourd dancers that dance on line with the men. I also can't see a little boy or even a young man, a Minor, being considered for this headstaff position since this is basically an adult male dance. I do realize that we allow our young men/boys to dance with us because some do have their societies positions with a boys responsibilities. These responsibilities and positions are simply a way to teach these young men the ways. I myself allow my sons to dance with me or another adult male Gourd dancer in our family. My sons were not allowed to Gourd dance if not accompanied. This is just my thoughts on the discipline of the dance. Just as our children were not allowed to have Eagle feathers until they came of age and were honored with one formally.

These topics have been covered before but just for the sake of something to talk about let's talk.

This is just my thoughts on the matter. Let's see how this topic develops, let's keep civil.

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BOB

WhoMe

Cherosage:

Times change and so are Indian ways.

In Oklahoma there are women head gourd dancers.

Outside of Oklahoma, there are women head gourd dancers AND little boy head gourd dancers.

In 1976 Taft Hainta, Headsman for the Kiowa Gourd Clan said, "We are the proud Kiowa Gourd Clan. As long as I am alive, I don't want any of the members of the Kiowa Gourd Clan to be a head gourd dancer. This is not our way. We don't know what this is. Also. We will never be a host or cohost gourd clan as long as I am alive. We don't know what this is either."

To this day, the Kiowa Gourd Clan does not accept invitations to be a host. Some gourd clan members have not heeded Taft's words. But by far, the majority has.

park

Somebody's been reading Kiowa Voices.

You won't see any Head Lady Gourd Dancers in Kiowa country. That's a Comanche thing.

As far as head little boy this and head little girl that, you're right, people do it. But that doesn't make it right, which was the point of your original post, I believe. As others have said, just because others are doing it doesn't make it legitimate.

Any change in this dance should come from those who started it.

CHEROSAGE

I must admit that I haven't danced in the Lawton-Anadarko-Carnegie area for quite some time. I do get some news from some of my cuzns though. I have yet to hear that the Kiowas have accepted a woman as a straight up Gourd dancer let alone a Headsperson for the Kiowa Gourd Clan.

I have to agree with Parks and others, that when these Clans accept this change I will go along with it. I was only given the right to dance this dance not change it.

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BOB

WhoMe

Park:

I can't say I ever read Kiowa Voices. It is mo' betta' to be there and hear it from the source - than to read about it.

My point is . . . when other tribes do this dance, they interpret it as they see fit. This includes adaptations that totally get away from its original intent.

The gourd dance is not reserved for only those in the military. I am really tired of hearing this over and over from SSooooooo many powwow announcers.

It is part of the ceremony belonging to the Tdienpaygah. One society within the hierarchy of Kiowa Societies.

Like the helushkas, it is a Man Dance!

theepowwowchic49

Whaaaaaaaaaat????? Where was this at? what is this powwow world coming to?

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