Giving tobacco to the elders by the kids

**White Powwow Dancer** · 04-04-2001, 02:21 AM

Hi
I writing about this because I think it is very important to teach kids about respect to the elders. What you think? A good idea or bad idea.
Migwetch, WPD

Singing Otter · 04-04-2001, 02:43 AM

I think respect starts at home... I was raised to respect elders or else. Not only that... I was taught why.

**White Powwow Dancer** · 04-04-2001, 02:46 AM

Hi Singing Otter,
A good point about respect start at home.
Migwetch, WPD

04-04-2001, 10:17 AM

Respect is something that is not as commonly seen these days. Nowadays, kids can just about get away w/ murder. It makes no sense what kids can get away with. And what makes it so bad is that they know they can. That is why they are dangerous. Sorry! Thats just the teacher coming out of me! :D

Althought I don't have any children of my own, I grew up to value and respect all elders. And I must say, and my behind will agree, it has been something that has kept me alive and offered much support in return.

Yes, it does start at the home and quite often, they are not given a full explanation. To do so in such a manner does more than just teach respect towards our elders. It also teaches the value of our enriched culture. So many are growing up today without ever knowing a thing about who they are!

So I would say, "Very, very, important! Very, very appropriate!"

SHSinger

Smokin' Ace · 04-04-2001, 10:48 AM

It is very important and encouraged. Offering tobacco shows the reciever that you appreciate his time and words.

But not everyone appreciates this, so it needs to still be on a one by one basis. Meaning: some people, who you might want to talk with, might not need or want the tobacco.

Here's my concern, and please do not take this the wrong way, anyone. Our elders are very protected jewels to us; we honor them the same way we honor our children. By this being on a public forum, I don't want to give anyone the impression that all you have to do is offer tobacco to any elder and they will tell you whatever you want to know. uh uh - nitch - that's not how it works. Don't cheat yourself of the opportunity of getting to know a person, by assuming that offering tobacco means they are going to think you are an enlightened being, and tell you the meaning of their world. If they still do not know you, they will treat you the same way they would any other stranger - and thank you for the free smoke. ;)

If you are genuine in your quest for knowledge, the answers will come to you. Be patient. Enjoy life.

Tree · 04-04-2001, 05:07 PM

She:kon Folks:
It has already been said that respect begins at home. I think we can say it goes even further. Respect for others can only come when children and all of us are able to first show respect for ourself. The many ways we do that are taught first and foremost by example.

With teaching our children to have self respect and good self-esteem, respect for the Elders will not be too difficult at all because it basically embodies respect for all things and all people, regardless of age.

Giving tobacco in the present sense is a new phenomenon. Tobacco was given at times in the past but not like it is being taught now. Now adays there are "Elders" who won't do anything, even cross the street or pick their nose, unless tobacco is first given.LOL I am sorry but I wasn't brought up that way. There are times when tobacco is given that it is appropriate and there are times it is not.

The main thing I learned was Elders were treated like you would treat anybody else, with respect, dignity, honor, kindness, love, and compassion, etc. No difference. Again this "Elder worship" is part of a new phenomenon. The kindest thing you could probably say to an Elder was to refer to them respectfully as Grandfather or Grandmother. Just my thoughts. Onen.

04-04-2001, 10:57 PM

Ace, smart move!
Tree, point well put! I apologize for my post earlier, it shows my youth. ;) And yes, I will agree with you. It is not always needed by the elder. And I'm glad you made that point about it being a new phenomenon b/c I was under the false pretense that it was something widely done.

See there, you do learn something new everyday!

Before I follow in Aces' footsteps and remove myself, I will comment on one thing I have seen. I have seen one individual greet an elder with a basket/bag of fruit. Has anyone heard of/seen this? Do you think this would be appropriate for different situations?

SHSinger

[ April 04, 2001: Message edited by: secrethillsinger ]

[ April 04, 2001: Message edited by: secrethillsinger ]

Lapis Queen · 04-05-2001, 12:16 AM

OK. I hope no one kills me for this. I feel as though showing Elders respect doesn't always encompass giving tangible things. Teaching kids to respect themselves and portraying an upstanding character that carries on the traditions that the Elders teach. Giving things may not always be appropriate, but walking the paths that our Elders have set before us is always approriate and can never go wrong. I feel as though teaching our kids to walk that path and respecting themselves is the kind of respect that speaks volumes over tangible gifts. If you have this kind of respect, the offerings fall where they should. My 2 pennies! :D
IF

**White Powwow Dancer** · 04-05-2001, 01:00 AM

Hi
Secrethillsinger, Thats a good point you made about respect is in a short supply I fine thats is true today kids.
Smokin' Ace please explain yourself I'am

.
Migwetch, WPD

Smokin' Ace · 04-05-2001, 01:12 AM

My point was everyone is diff. Different strokes for different folks. We have a responsibility on this board to not mislead the average person. Not all elders want tobacco. Not all elders need tobacco. I understand what you are trying to say WPD; I am sorry if what I said confuses you.

It's all good.

**White Powwow Dancer** · 04-05-2001, 01:32 AM

Hello
Smokin' Ace, What other things I could do
to install respect to elders from the kids?
Migwetch, WPD

Smokin' Ace · 04-05-2001, 01:41 AM

There are 1,000 ways to instill respect in our children for our elders. Walking the walk, talking the talk. We as adults need to lead by example.

No disrespect to you, WPD, but I will gracefully bow-out of this conversation, and allow others to answer this for you.
:D

**White Powwow Dancer** · 04-05-2001, 01:58 AM

Hi
Thanks for the respones.
Tree, good point about respect starts at home. :)
Iron Feather good point in your post about character and traditions that the Elders teach to the kids. :)

**White Powwow Dancer** · 04-05-2001, 01:59 AM

OK :D

tatewiyan · 04-05-2001, 02:17 AM

There are specific reasons to offer tobacco, and not just to the elders. The act of giving tobacco is not a requirement for showing respect.

My mother is a well respected elder, she would not need to receive tobacco (nor would she want it). When someone comes to visit her, she feeds them and if they have come from a long distance, she also gives them a gift, that is part of our culture.

The issue of teaching children respect, has to come from the home. But I will say this, I have yet to see an Indian child treat an elder with disrespect. I live on a reservation and worked in a school - the children were always respectful to the elders. Respect needs to go both ways in the schools.

The giving of food is also an important part of our culture. There is no procedure or symbolism for this...it is a gift and will always be accepted.

04-04-2001, 02:21 AM	#1 (permalink)
White Powwow Dancer Brakeman Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: ONIGAMIINSING (Little portage) Posts: 1,306	Giving tobacco to the elders by the kids Hi I writing about this because I think it is very important to teach kids about respect to the elders. What you think? A good idea or bad idea. Migwetch, WPD __________________ Asema Is Sacred Traditional Use, Not Misuse Wakan Tanka please have compassion on me. OK Niji we are running a train with red over yellow at this powwow.

04-04-2001, 02:43 AM	#2 (permalink)
Singing Otter Gotz ta be me! Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,391 Blog Entries: 1	I think respect starts at home... I was raised to respect elders or else. Not only that... I was taught why. __________________ Cowboy wisdom: A thong is like a barb wire fence, it protects the property without blocking the view.

04-04-2001, 02:46 AM	#3 (permalink)
White Powwow Dancer Brakeman Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: ONIGAMIINSING (Little portage) Posts: 1,306	Hi Singing Otter, A good point about respect start at home. Migwetch, WPD __________________ Asema Is Sacred Traditional Use, Not Misuse Wakan Tanka please have compassion on me. OK Niji we are running a train with red over yellow at this powwow.

04-04-2001, 10:48 AM	#5 (permalink)
Smokin' Ace Arena Director Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: United States Posts: 4,111	It is very important and encouraged. Offering tobacco shows the reciever that you appreciate his time and words. But not everyone appreciates this, so it needs to still be on a one by one basis. Meaning: some people, who you might want to talk with, might not need or want the tobacco. Here's my concern, and please do not take this the wrong way, anyone. Our elders are very protected jewels to us; we honor them the same way we honor our children. By this being on a public forum, I don't want to give anyone the impression that all you have to do is offer tobacco to any elder and they will tell you whatever you want to know. uh uh - nitch - that's not how it works. Don't cheat yourself of the opportunity of getting to know a person, by assuming that offering tobacco means they are going to think you are an enlightened being, and tell you the meaning of their world. If they still do not know you, they will treat you the same way they would any other stranger - and thank you for the free smoke. ;) If you are genuine in your quest for knowledge, the answers will come to you. Be patient. Enjoy life. __________________ Everything is gonna be alright! Be blessed - got love??? This b me..... www.myspace.com/akayo

04-04-2001, 05:07 PM	#6 (permalink)
Tree Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Canada Posts: 25	She:kon Folks: It has already been said that respect begins at home. I think we can say it goes even further. Respect for others can only come when children and all of us are able to first show respect for ourself. The many ways we do that are taught first and foremost by example. With teaching our children to have self respect and good self-esteem, respect for the Elders will not be too difficult at all because it basically embodies respect for all things and all people, regardless of age. Giving tobacco in the present sense is a new phenomenon. Tobacco was given at times in the past but not like it is being taught now. Now adays there are "Elders" who won't do anything, even cross the street or pick their nose, unless tobacco is first given.LOL I am sorry but I wasn't brought up that way. There are times when tobacco is given that it is appropriate and there are times it is not. The main thing I learned was Elders were treated like you would treat anybody else, with respect, dignity, honor, kindness, love, and compassion, etc. No difference. Again this "Elder worship" is part of a new phenomenon. The kindest thing you could probably say to an Elder was to refer to them respectfully as Grandfather or Grandmother. Just my thoughts. Onen. __________________ ~Tree~ Skennen enhsenontonnion':hake - May you have peace in your mind and heart.

04-04-2001, 10:17 AM	#4 (permalink)
secrethillsinger Guest Posts: n/a	Respect is something that is not as commonly seen these days. Nowadays, kids can just about get away w/ murder. It makes no sense what kids can get away with. And what makes it so bad is that they know they can. That is why they are dangerous. Sorry! Thats just the teacher coming out of me! :D Althought I don't have any children of my own, I grew up to value and respect all elders. And I must say, and my behind will agree, it has been something that has kept me alive and offered much support in return. Yes, it does start at the home and quite often, they are not given a full explanation. To do so in such a manner does more than just teach respect towards our elders. It also teaches the value of our enriched culture. So many are growing up today without ever knowing a thing about who they are! So I would say, "Very, very, important! Very, very appropriate!" SHSinger

04-04-2001, 10:57 PM	#7 (permalink)
secrethillsinger Guest Posts: n/a	Ace, smart move! Tree, point well put! I apologize for my post earlier, it shows my youth. ;) And yes, I will agree with you. It is not always needed by the elder. And I'm glad you made that point about it being a new phenomenon b/c I was under the false pretense that it was something widely done. See there, you do learn something new everyday! Before I follow in Aces' footsteps and remove myself, I will comment on one thing I have seen. I have seen one individual greet an elder with a basket/bag of fruit. Has anyone heard of/seen this? Do you think this would be appropriate for different situations? SHSinger [ April 04, 2001: Message edited by: secrethillsinger ] [ April 04, 2001: Message edited by: secrethillsinger ]

04-05-2001, 12:16 AM	#8 (permalink)
Lapis Queen Junior Dancer Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Raleigh Posts: 154	OK. I hope no one kills me for this. I feel as though showing Elders respect doesn't always encompass giving tangible things. Teaching kids to respect themselves and portraying an upstanding character that carries on the traditions that the Elders teach. Giving things may not always be appropriate, but walking the paths that our Elders have set before us is always approriate and can never go wrong. I feel as though teaching our kids to walk that path and respecting themselves is the kind of respect that speaks volumes over tangible gifts. If you have this kind of respect, the offerings fall where they should. My 2 pennies! :D IF

04-05-2001, 01:00 AM	#9 (permalink)
White Powwow Dancer Brakeman Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: ONIGAMIINSING (Little portage) Posts: 1,306	Hi Secrethillsinger, Thats a good point you made about respect is in a short supply I fine thats is true today kids. Smokin' Ace please explain yourself I'am . Migwetch, WPD __________________ Asema Is Sacred Traditional Use, Not Misuse Wakan Tanka please have compassion on me. OK Niji we are running a train with red over yellow at this powwow.

04-05-2001, 01:12 AM	#10 (permalink)
Smokin' Ace Arena Director Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: United States Posts: 4,111	My point was everyone is diff. Different strokes for different folks. We have a responsibility on this board to not mislead the average person. Not all elders want tobacco. Not all elders need tobacco. I understand what you are trying to say WPD; I am sorry if what I said confuses you. It's all good. __________________ Everything is gonna be alright! Be blessed - got love??? This b me..... www.myspace.com/akayo

04-05-2001, 01:32 AM	#11 (permalink)
White Powwow Dancer Brakeman Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: ONIGAMIINSING (Little portage) Posts: 1,306	Hello Smokin' Ace, What other things I could do to install respect to elders from the kids? Migwetch, WPD __________________ Asema Is Sacred Traditional Use, Not Misuse Wakan Tanka please have compassion on me. OK Niji we are running a train with red over yellow at this powwow.

04-05-2001, 01:41 AM	#12 (permalink)
Smokin' Ace Arena Director Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: United States Posts: 4,111	There are 1,000 ways to instill respect in our children for our elders. Walking the walk, talking the talk. We as adults need to lead by example. No disrespect to you, WPD, but I will gracefully bow-out of this conversation, and allow others to answer this for you. :D __________________ Everything is gonna be alright! Be blessed - got love??? This b me..... www.myspace.com/akayo

04-05-2001, 01:58 AM	#13 (permalink)
White Powwow Dancer Brakeman Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: ONIGAMIINSING (Little portage) Posts: 1,306	Hi Thanks for the respones. Tree, good point about respect starts at home. :) Iron Feather good point in your post about character and traditions that the Elders teach to the kids. :) __________________ Asema Is Sacred Traditional Use, Not Misuse Wakan Tanka please have compassion on me. OK Niji we are running a train with red over yellow at this powwow.

04-05-2001, 01:59 AM	#14 (permalink)
White Powwow Dancer Brakeman Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: ONIGAMIINSING (Little portage) Posts: 1,306	OK :D __________________ Asema Is Sacred Traditional Use, Not Misuse Wakan Tanka please have compassion on me. OK Niji we are running a train with red over yellow at this powwow.

04-05-2001, 02:17 AM	#15 (permalink)
tatewiyan Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 1	There are specific reasons to offer tobacco, and not just to the elders. The act of giving tobacco is not a requirement for showing respect. My mother is a well respected elder, she would not need to receive tobacco (nor would she want it). When someone comes to visit her, she feeds them and if they have come from a long distance, she also gives them a gift, that is part of our culture. The issue of teaching children respect, has to come from the home. But I will say this, I have yet to see an Indian child treat an elder with disrespect. I live on a reservation and worked in a school - the children were always respectful to the elders. Respect needs to go both ways in the schools. The giving of food is also an important part of our culture. There is no procedure or symbolism for this...it is a gift and will always be accepted.