State Recognized Tribes

Ayita16 · 09-20-2002, 09:12 PM

I am sorry I deleted this thread. I am going to put it back up for everyone.

What is your opinion on state recognized tribes?? If your a member of one or currently within the enrolling process tell us your opinion etc.!!!!!

My opinion is State recognized tribes are just as good as federally recognized and non recognized. I know some tribes don't want to be recognized. I know some people who are not enrolled in a tribe but do have ndn blood in them. My friend Ashley is half choctaw she isn't enrolled. Some people just didn't choose to sign the census.

What are ya'lls opinion??

~Ayita~

LWB · 09-20-2002, 09:19 PM

Dear Cherosage

There is no State recognized Cherokee tribe in Arkansas , a proclamation is not state recognition & that's all any tribe has in Arkansas . I have been to the governor's office with a deiegation of Northern Cherokee to talk about this subject & we were told by his law officer & later by himself that untill we could come together as one tribe (yah right - there are as many as 4 different
"Cherokee tribe's" in Arkansas ,maybe more) that we would NEVER get state recognition!!!! no legislater would back one tribe
over the others (votes are votes folks).

this post will not be deleted , so go ahead

Tsiniti · 09-20-2002, 09:31 PM

Several years ago, I joined a non-recognized Tribal Nation, and then got embarrassed by it, after all doesn't that make me the ultimate wannabe? BUT when I went to Cherokee later that same year, I mentioned that yes I was in a Cherokee Tribe, but that they weren't and arn't going to be recognized, the elder I was talking with asked me it's name, and I told him, he said he had heard nothing but good about them, that not everyone enrolled when they could have when the enrollment first got started, and that the only good his "Card" did him, was free hunting and fishing. He was proud for me that I was a part of a Nation that was doing good by it's heritage, and not fighting, or worrying about money issues! I quit worrying about being made fun of, because I don't have, and don't care about a "Card".

Acceptance is better than recognition any day! There is a difference, I have nothing to loose!

Ayita16 · 09-20-2002, 09:42 PM

Who said I was ashamed?? I am not scared by anybodys comment. I don't know why I deleted it. I shouldn't have. I had deleted the other one that I had posted it and no one had responded on it and I guess I was on a role. Ya'll are right. The public does have a right to see other peoples opinions.

I'm sorry.

Ayita16 · 09-20-2002, 09:46 PM

Who ever said I was scared of other people's opinion????

Why won't any legislators back any of the tribes?? And what is the main issue why the tribe won't come together???
~ayita~

Tsiniti · 09-20-2002, 10:18 PM

Ayita16,

LWB wasn't addressing what he said to you! He was upset, by something Cherosage said #1, and #2, that he thought the thread was taken off for different reasons! It's ok calm down!

The reason why the Arkansas Cherokee arn't, can't, and won't be recognized, is like he said they have to band together and work as a team, there are at least 5 different tribes of them, in different areas! Most of them settled in those areas, BEFORE the Trail of Tears, and wanted nothinf to do with that garbage! Now they cannot, and will not work together, each thinking they are right, and everyone else is wrong! It has been this way from the time they moved there in the 17 and 1800's!! I am desended, from several of these people, and even today some of the family is the same! They can't agree on anything! Nor do they want to!

There are several books written about the Arkansas Cherokee, but I can only think of the one I own at this time, and it is about the Five Civilised Tribes. There are others, I know I've read them, and read about my own ancestors! Most of the History about Cherokee books talk about them, as well as the group that went to Mexico, and another that settled in South Texas, many years before the Trail of Tears, and if I'm not mistaken the Mexico trip was even before white man came. Cherokee's just got too big for their territory, and branched off!

zeph · 09-20-2002, 10:27 PM

ok, I still don't understand why this thread was deleted in the first place. Ayita, what do you mean no one was responding? Several people had... did I miss something, was someone getting nasty? Guess we'll never know since those posts are gone now...

LWB · 09-21-2002, 12:55 AM

Tsiniti was right I am not mad at you ,& am sorry if I caused you any heart ache, that was not my intention I only wanted to clear up some misinformation that was left on this post , I think we have enough trouble with people who come on here & either misinform , make up things or down right lie .if people come on & ask an honest question they should get an honest answer.

CHEROSAGE · 09-22-2002, 03:59 AM

LWB:
The information I printed was given to me by some Northern Cherokees of Mo and Ark. Being of Mo and being of Cherokee linage I guess our family is a mark. I was told that then Gov. Clinton signed a bill authorizing The recognition of the these Cherokees. I don't live too far from where their office is, now. I don't hear too much about these people anymore. They seem to be quiet.

I still think that state recognized tribes should be recognized as Indian the same as federally recognized Indians. I knew an Elder that has passed that was Modoc of OK. The Modocs were no longer federally recog., does this make this Full Blood no longer Indian. The Ottawa Tribe of OK lost their Federal recog. a long time ago and regained it in the 50's (I believe). Were they not Indian during that time period? I know many that would argue.

A. Nony Mouse · 09-22-2002, 12:07 PM

I notice deltadawn's post was not put back in this thread and she asked some good questions that didn't get answered. Such as if you are not interested in the land or tribal money or handouts or any of that and you feel that it is not all that important to be fed or state recognized, then why you trying so hard to get enrolled?

walmart ndn · 09-23-2002, 09:57 AM

I to have noticed my post was not put back up. Wonder why? :dontknow:

Nennakene · 09-23-2002, 10:26 AM

Forget the state and the feds
Part of the problem in Indian Country today, is our inability to come together and make effective decisions without fighting and bickering. And why is that? Because we have forgotten how NDN peoples traditionally made those decisions. Today we form committees, we abide by Robert's Rules of Order, and we take on and use value systems that belong to "them". Then we wait and wait for some check to come in the mail.
This is unnatural for us, and some of us have watched our own people turn against one another in the middle of a committee or tribal meeting, offended people drop off of those committees and then a new committee has to be created just to make the decision that should have been made a year ago. Families turn against one another, the hurt runs deep and outsiders play to those weaknesses.
If the truth be known, we as NDN people, are the key to recognizing ourselves for who we are and what our capabilities are. Sitting around waiting for the dominant gov't to recognize us and then issue a check, is just another welfare system designed to keep us numbered and humble. When we speak of Sovereign Nations, ........we should speak seriously.

LWB · 09-23-2002, 10:49 AM

Walmart
mine was not reposted either I had to write it all over again

Okwataga · 09-23-2002, 12:16 PM

If anyone lived in Ga back in the early 90's then you would know how the GA natives got their state recognition.

there was some bill already passed, read me correctly already passed,
then this bill for three tribes to be state recognize and of course the chief of the daholnega tribe was in on the bill,

gracefully tacked on the bill for recognition to the bill that already passed.

so this is how state recognition is done down in GA.

Not saying those a part of the three tribes aren't native just saying a very underhanded way to get recognition!:(

like i asked before - if you do not care about the gov't saying who is and who isn't native then why the fuss over being enrolled somewhere?

Tooter · 09-23-2002, 02:01 PM

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why all the REAL CHEROKEES posts, plus others, got deleted. Man I am a moderator and when you delete something you do it on purpose. It ain't no accident. We all said something that whoever didn't want to hear which was the truth, however pissy it was.

I'll say it again. THere are only three Cherokee Tribes, thats all and no more. There is no, "Its in my heart and you can't tell me I'm not Indian." Heck look in the mirror! Stand beside me, FAncystar, Walmart NDN, Zeph, DeltaDawn, then you tell me who is CHerokee. Stand beside Sanish...see who's a skin or not.

I know I sound all hateful but you put yourself in our shoes where we hear this crap day after day. Cut it out, give us skins a break. Enough is enough. It's old and its tired. Man I hate to say this but if you are you are if you ain't you aint. Keep it to yourself cause everytime you bring this up on the board skins will attack and you won't like what we have to say because you STILL DON'T RESPECT A DAMN THING WE SAY OR DO. yOU WANNA TAKE IT ALL....LIKE YOUR ANCESTORS. When you gonna stop?

Somewhere down the line there is Irish in my family but I aint gonna run around looking for Irish chats and boards and tell them that I have a little Irish in me and if they don't like it I don't care cause its in my heart. I don't claim it and never will.....never would want to. So whats up that? JUST STOP!!! PLEASE!

zeph · 09-23-2002, 02:43 PM

"Stand beside me, FAncystar, Walmart NDN, Zeph, DeltaDawn, then you tell me who is CHerokee."

er, huh? I never claimed to be cherokee, and never even posted in the original thread, so what am I doing in that list?

Okwataga · 09-23-2002, 05:27 PM

zeph
tooter was on a roll, she was jsut trying to get her point across, sorry to have included you in the list of cherokees

Ayita16 · 09-23-2002, 06:03 PM

Well not to get in to the whole who is a ndn and who isn't. What about the ones who do have ndn blood and didn't want to sign the census back in the late 1890's and early 1900's so that they could stay on their land and protect there family? Just wandering.

I agree with there are only 3 federally recognized bands.
Keetowah
WBCI
EBCI

I personally don't see how there are the cherokees in cali and washington state. But I do see and how there are state recognized tribes in GA,Alabama,tenessee,and NC. B/c a lot of people in these states did not sign the census and could some how pass themselves off as white. So that they could stay on their land and protect there family?? Now don't get me wrong. I am not saying that the ndns who went on the forced removals and always claimed themselves as ndn weren't protecting there familys. I am just saying that some decided in that situation to not sign the census etc.

~ayita~

09-20-2002, 09:12 PM	#1 (permalink)
Ayita16 Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Indian Country Posts: 65	State Recognized Tribes I am sorry I deleted this thread. I am going to put it back up for everyone. What is your opinion on state recognized tribes?? If your a member of one or currently within the enrolling process tell us your opinion etc.!!!!! My opinion is State recognized tribes are just as good as federally recognized and non recognized. I know some tribes don't want to be recognized. I know some people who are not enrolled in a tribe but do have ndn blood in them. My friend Ashley is half choctaw she isn't enrolled. Some people just didn't choose to sign the census. What are ya'lls opinion?? ~Ayita~ __________________ ~NATIVE PRIDE~

09-20-2002, 09:19 PM	#2 (permalink)
LWB Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: thorn in your side Posts: 29	Ain't scared(state recognized tribes) Dear Cherosage There is no State recognized Cherokee tribe in Arkansas , a proclamation is not state recognition & that's all any tribe has in Arkansas . I have been to the governor's office with a deiegation of Northern Cherokee to talk about this subject & we were told by his law officer & later by himself that untill we could come together as one tribe (yah right - there are as many as 4 different "Cherokee tribe's" in Arkansas ,maybe more) that we would NEVER get state recognition!!!! no legislater would back one tribe over the others (votes are votes folks). this post will not be deleted , so go ahead Last edited by LWB; 09-20-2002 at 09:31 PM.

09-20-2002, 09:31 PM	#3 (permalink)
Tsiniti Dancin n Vendin Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: TN Posts: 295	Several years ago, I joined a non-recognized Tribal Nation, and then got embarrassed by it, after all doesn't that make me the ultimate wannabe? BUT when I went to Cherokee later that same year, I mentioned that yes I was in a Cherokee Tribe, but that they weren't and arn't going to be recognized, the elder I was talking with asked me it's name, and I told him, he said he had heard nothing but good about them, that not everyone enrolled when they could have when the enrollment first got started, and that the only good his "Card" did him, was free hunting and fishing. He was proud for me that I was a part of a Nation that was doing good by it's heritage, and not fighting, or worrying about money issues! I quit worrying about being made fun of, because I don't have, and don't care about a "Card". Acceptance is better than recognition any day! There is a difference, I have nothing to loose! __________________ Your Heart Shows by how Your Words and Actions Affect Others. Nah I ain't NO WANNABE! I don't gotta wannabe when people wannabe like me!

09-20-2002, 09:42 PM	#4 (permalink)
Ayita16 Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Indian Country Posts: 65	Who said I was ashamed?? I am not scared by anybodys comment. I don't know why I deleted it. I shouldn't have. I had deleted the other one that I had posted it and no one had responded on it and I guess I was on a role. Ya'll are right. The public does have a right to see other peoples opinions. I'm sorry. __________________ ~NATIVE PRIDE~

09-20-2002, 09:46 PM	#5 (permalink)
Ayita16 Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Indian Country Posts: 65	I wasn't scared Who ever said I was scared of other people's opinion???? Why won't any legislators back any of the tribes?? And what is the main issue why the tribe won't come together??? ~ayita~ __________________ ~NATIVE PRIDE~

09-20-2002, 10:18 PM	#6 (permalink)
Tsiniti Dancin n Vendin Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: TN Posts: 295	Ayita16, LWB wasn't addressing what he said to you! He was upset, by something Cherosage said #1, and #2, that he thought the thread was taken off for different reasons! It's ok calm down! The reason why the Arkansas Cherokee arn't, can't, and won't be recognized, is like he said they have to band together and work as a team, there are at least 5 different tribes of them, in different areas! Most of them settled in those areas, BEFORE the Trail of Tears, and wanted nothinf to do with that garbage! Now they cannot, and will not work together, each thinking they are right, and everyone else is wrong! It has been this way from the time they moved there in the 17 and 1800's!! I am desended, from several of these people, and even today some of the family is the same! They can't agree on anything! Nor do they want to! There are several books written about the Arkansas Cherokee, but I can only think of the one I own at this time, and it is about the Five Civilised Tribes. There are others, I know I've read them, and read about my own ancestors! Most of the History about Cherokee books talk about them, as well as the group that went to Mexico, and another that settled in South Texas, many years before the Trail of Tears, and if I'm not mistaken the Mexico trip was even before white man came. Cherokee's just got too big for their territory, and branched off! __________________ Your Heart Shows by how Your Words and Actions Affect Others. Nah I ain't NO WANNABE! I don't gotta wannabe when people wannabe like me!

09-20-2002, 10:27 PM	#7 (permalink)
zeph Senior Dancer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: New Mexico Posts: 769	ok, I still don't understand why this thread was deleted in the first place. Ayita, what do you mean no one was responding? Several people had... did I miss something, was someone getting nasty? Guess we'll never know since those posts are gone now... __________________ - zeph

09-21-2002, 12:55 AM	#8 (permalink)
LWB Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: thorn in your side Posts: 29	Sorry Ayita Tsiniti was right I am not mad at you ,& am sorry if I caused you any heart ache, that was not my intention I only wanted to clear up some misinformation that was left on this post , I think we have enough trouble with people who come on here & either misinform , make up things or down right lie .if people come on & ask an honest question they should get an honest answer.

09-22-2002, 03:59 AM	#9 (permalink)
CHEROSAGE Pow Wow Committee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: , mo Posts: 1,341	LWB: The information I printed was given to me by some Northern Cherokees of Mo and Ark. Being of Mo and being of Cherokee linage I guess our family is a mark. I was told that then Gov. Clinton signed a bill authorizing The recognition of the these Cherokees. I don't live too far from where their office is, now. I don't hear too much about these people anymore. They seem to be quiet. I still think that state recognized tribes should be recognized as Indian the same as federally recognized Indians. I knew an Elder that has passed that was Modoc of OK. The Modocs were no longer federally recog., does this make this Full Blood no longer Indian. The Ottawa Tribe of OK lost their Federal recog. a long time ago and regained it in the 50's (I believe). Were they not Indian during that time period? I know many that would argue. __________________ BOB

09-22-2002, 12:07 PM	#10 (permalink)
A. Nony Mouse Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 11	I notice deltadawn's post was not put back in this thread and she asked some good questions that didn't get answered. Such as if you are not interested in the land or tribal money or handouts or any of that and you feel that it is not all that important to be fed or state recognized, then why you trying so hard to get enrolled?

09-23-2002, 09:57 AM	#11 (permalink)
walmart ndn Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: cherokee, nc Posts: 68	I to have noticed my post was not put back up. Wonder why? :dontknow:

09-23-2002, 10:26 AM	#12 (permalink)
Nennakene Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: East Coast Posts: 3	State or Fed Recognition Forget the state and the feds Part of the problem in Indian Country today, is our inability to come together and make effective decisions without fighting and bickering. And why is that? Because we have forgotten how NDN peoples traditionally made those decisions. Today we form committees, we abide by Robert's Rules of Order, and we take on and use value systems that belong to "them". Then we wait and wait for some check to come in the mail. This is unnatural for us, and some of us have watched our own people turn against one another in the middle of a committee or tribal meeting, offended people drop off of those committees and then a new committee has to be created just to make the decision that should have been made a year ago. Families turn against one another, the hurt runs deep and outsiders play to those weaknesses. If the truth be known, we as NDN people, are the key to recognizing ourselves for who we are and what our capabilities are. Sitting around waiting for the dominant gov't to recognize us and then issue a check, is just another welfare system designed to keep us numbered and humble. When we speak of Sovereign Nations, ........we should speak seriously. __________________ Traditionals Keep on Dancing!

09-23-2002, 10:49 AM	#13 (permalink)
LWB Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: thorn in your side Posts: 29	Walmart ndn Walmart mine was not reposted either I had to write it all over again

09-23-2002, 12:16 PM	#14 (permalink)
Okwataga Senior Dancer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: cherokee Posts: 952	If anyone lived in Ga back in the early 90's then you would know how the GA natives got their state recognition. there was some bill already passed, read me correctly already passed, then this bill for three tribes to be state recognize and of course the chief of the daholnega tribe was in on the bill, gracefully tacked on the bill for recognition to the bill that already passed. so this is how state recognition is done down in GA. Not saying those a part of the three tribes aren't native just saying a very underhanded way to get recognition!:( like i asked before - if you do not care about the gov't saying who is and who isn't native then why the fuss over being enrolled somewhere?

09-23-2002, 02:01 PM	#15 (permalink)
Tooter Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Cherokee, NC Posts: 68	Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why all the REAL CHEROKEES posts, plus others, got deleted. Man I am a moderator and when you delete something you do it on purpose. It ain't no accident. We all said something that whoever didn't want to hear which was the truth, however pissy it was. I'll say it again. THere are only three Cherokee Tribes, thats all and no more. There is no, "Its in my heart and you can't tell me I'm not Indian." Heck look in the mirror! Stand beside me, FAncystar, Walmart NDN, Zeph, DeltaDawn, then you tell me who is CHerokee. Stand beside Sanish...see who's a skin or not. I know I sound all hateful but you put yourself in our shoes where we hear this crap day after day. Cut it out, give us skins a break. Enough is enough. It's old and its tired. Man I hate to say this but if you are you are if you ain't you aint. Keep it to yourself cause everytime you bring this up on the board skins will attack and you won't like what we have to say because you STILL DON'T RESPECT A DAMN THING WE SAY OR DO. yOU WANNA TAKE IT ALL....LIKE YOUR ANCESTORS. When you gonna stop? Somewhere down the line there is Irish in my family but I aint gonna run around looking for Irish chats and boards and tell them that I have a little Irish in me and if they don't like it I don't care cause its in my heart. I don't claim it and never will.....never would want to. So whats up that? JUST STOP!!! PLEASE!

09-23-2002, 02:43 PM	#16 (permalink)
zeph Senior Dancer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: New Mexico Posts: 769	"Stand beside me, FAncystar, Walmart NDN, Zeph, DeltaDawn, then you tell me who is CHerokee." er, huh? I never claimed to be cherokee, and never even posted in the original thread, so what am I doing in that list? __________________ - zeph

09-23-2002, 05:27 PM	#17 (permalink)
Okwataga Senior Dancer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: cherokee Posts: 952	zeph tooter was on a roll, she was jsut trying to get her point across, sorry to have included you in the list of cherokees

09-23-2002, 06:03 PM	#18 (permalink)
Ayita16 Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Indian Country Posts: 65	Well not to get in to the whole who is a ndn and who isn't. What about the ones who do have ndn blood and didn't want to sign the census back in the late 1890's and early 1900's so that they could stay on their land and protect there family? Just wandering. I agree with there are only 3 federally recognized bands. Keetowah WBCI EBCI I personally don't see how there are the cherokees in cali and washington state. But I do see and how there are state recognized tribes in GA,Alabama,tenessee,and NC. B/c a lot of people in these states did not sign the census and could some how pass themselves off as white. So that they could stay on their land and protect there family?? Now don't get me wrong. I am not saying that the ndns who went on the forced removals and always claimed themselves as ndn weren't protecting there familys. I am just saying that some decided in that situation to not sign the census etc. ~ayita~ __________________ ~NATIVE PRIDE~

09-23-2002, 11:11 PM	#19 (permalink)
FancyStar What Will Be Will Be Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Cherokee,NC USA Posts: 580