Getting carded

Beardancer · 10-03-2001, 12:48 PM

Here's a question for thought. When I register at powwows its not unusual for me to get carded to show proof of tribal membership. This due to my dirty blonde hair and blue eyes-thanks DAD hehe. Now, at a powwow in GA I was carded by a Department of Natural Resources official in question to my possesion of hawk feathers. I showed him my tribal card and nothing else was said. I'm just wondering how frequently anyone else gets the thrid degree out there and if its based by region. For example I heard they are less stringent in the west- thought comments...
Doug

**NDNQt** · 10-03-2001, 02:10 PM

I did get carded at Fayetteville's pow-wow one year. And I am Lumbee but they didn't know me and I can't blame them, I have reddish-brown hair and am light skinned and they didn't know me from Adam and Eve. But I cannot say that I know anyone who has been carded for feathers just for dancing.

lightningflash · 10-03-2001, 03:43 PM

Maybe it's an eastern thing - I've never seen any carding at powwows in the NW, either for feathers or to contest dance. Most people I know don't carry their cards with them, so there'd be alot of people pretty pi$$ed off if they did...

Ayita16 · 10-03-2001, 04:59 PM

I think in GA they are trying to get rid of the fakes and new agers! I live in GA and go to powwows frequently and stuff and i get carded and stuff but i am getting my card soon. but some people can get pretty rude when they card you. this one guy got in my face, and even gave me the look like you are a hlaf breed you don't belong in the arena thats what i got out of his look. But he was very rude to me! ANd i am only 15!!
~Ayita16~

:D

powwow john · 10-03-2001, 06:33 PM

what the heck is a new ager

dancing bear · 10-05-2001, 08:55 PM

Card??
I don't need no stinkin' card!! :D
Seriously, I've never carried one and have not had any trouble either.
But, of coarse, that's just me.. :D
Oso

10-05-2001, 09:21 PM

I think it has to be east/southeastern thing. But I don't believe that just because someone carries a card that total excludes them from the "freakish" category. I have been to some Powwow's and have seen some natives and have been like, "Huh?"

Then on the other hand I know of plenty of non-natives who treat our culture with more respect than some of us do.
I do think it serves a purpose to an extent (like CYA when the Feds Feathers Busters show up), but I'd like to see it done away with or some other alternate used.
I've also heard of a Powwow(s) were certain dancers were "carded" to keep them from dancing/competing, but when the "carding police" made checks of all the dancers only 4 had cards and the rest of the 200 or so dancers didn't or weren't legal in the first place

But in all honesty I wish the only time I have to be carded is when I try to get in the club :D

Tvskekee · 10-05-2001, 10:00 PM

Out here on the East coast carding does weed out many of the new agers and born again cherokee's.

Bloody Medicine Face - If you dont know what a new ager is then you better make some room at your place cause I, for one, want to live wherever you do adn Im sure many other people here would too!!-lol

Ive never been carded before when I lived out west, it was no big deal. Havent been carded back here on the east coast either, I think its all about the looks sometimes. Like one time when I was stationed in Texas a Gros Ventre friend of mine Catcher CutsTheRope went to dance at this one powwow. Ol blu eyed, blond haired Texas cherokee lady asked him for his card....

his reply " Lady look at me, do I look like a need f..ing card to prove to your white a** that Im ndn?" well, I agree, he could have handled it better but the look of utter shock on her face was enough to make everyone die laughing, memorable, caught him on a bad day :)

I do not recommend this approach to being carded-just for the record

:D

~*~MizzQaqimat~*~ · 10-07-2001, 06:16 PM

I haven't been carded all that much, but I was carded at a couple of powwows. I kinda like the carding thing...but I also don't. I have friends who can't compete because they don't have their cards, and some are more Native than I am. I hate that some people think that all Natives these days have black hair, dark skin, brown eyes, etc. Yes, I have all of these traits, all but my hair is a dark brown, not black. Anyway...I have a friend who's mom is full blood Lumbee, and her dad is white, but she happened to get blonde hair,blue eyes, and light skin. So, you see, we can't judge people's heritage by their looks. Although, I have to say, I like a dark Native guy, lol.

yishdioh · 10-07-2001, 08:59 PM

I've seen flyers for larger powwows that warn that proof will be required, but have never seen anyone actually ask for it in our area. They might post that you have to be at least one fourth Native, but usually don't challenge anyone. Our family is Navajo and we don't have any cards. Our only proof is from tribal enrollment. There are some local people who are white but have been accepted in the powwow circle. Some have been adopted into tribes and others married in. They take it all very seriously and don't get much flack except from outsiders. I don't really see a need to card anyone. It doesn't take much to tell those who really care from those who are just playing Indian for the weekend. That should be enough for those judging. The outfits and the way they dance usually separate the serious dancer from the Boy Scout or new ager within the first minute of the song.

**MayChe** · 10-07-2001, 09:06 PM

i live in florida and some powwows in southern florida they card you to enter competition. i was offended that the Seminoles in Hollywood asked if I had a card but didnt ask my mom. I think they were going by skin color because i am a whole lot darker than my mom.

lngfthr · 10-09-2001, 05:08 PM

Up here, we don't have cards, we have enrollment numbers. When I hear "getting carded", it means bouncers checking your ID at the door of the bar to see if you're old enough to drink! Hehehehee....

Come to think of it, I haven't been carded at Buck's in awhile. ****, must be getting old, huh, Sahnish? :p

[ October 09, 2001: Message edited by: lngfthr ]

Sahnish · 10-09-2001, 11:28 PM

Hey Lngfthr;
you know I been wondering about that "card" business ever since I been reading about it on here. I always wanted a "card" so last month I was going south to a pow wow so i figured I better get me a card, in case I was carded. I had some printed up. I put "ME INDIAN" in capital letters just in case someone asked me for my "card." Well wouldn't you know it, they carded me, but they wanted more identification so I asked if they had a mirror, they said, "yes we do," and gave it to me. I looked in the mirror and said "That's me, alright." They let me dance after that. You know lngfthr, I heard you had trouble getting into Canada so if you want I will give you my extra card, but you are going to have to get your own mirror tho.

You know, now that you mention it, I wasn't carded last time I was at Buck's either. Of course I knew the bouncer tho, so maybe that was why, ennit..

lngfthr · 10-10-2001, 11:14 AM

LMIAO...you're too much, Sahnish! :D

10-10-2001, 11:32 AM

You know I do understand about being carded..I was at the Denver powwow
and I was carded there I felt kind of insulted. I don't usually bring my card with me
unless for medical reasons when i go visit family on the rez...What's the point of
being carded? I just feel like I'm being labeled when I get carded.
The point of dancing at a powwow isn't to be carded everyone has the right to dance regardless if their registered or not...I have a friend who didnt have her kids registered because she has a reason. So does that exclude them to dance as well.
I think that all powwows should be more open and so less uptight about cards..It's only a piece of paper nothing more. Ya know? :)

Tvskekee · 10-10-2001, 03:24 PM

I have the final say in who dances and who doesnta t this upcomgin powwow. Dont worry about not having your pedigree papers, just dont show up in a wal mart pocahontas outfit and youll be good to go :)

NDNRevolution · 10-10-2001, 03:42 PM

It is sad that the US government makes NDN people the only people on earth to have papers to define who they are. It is becoming even sadder that now at gatherings that you must have proof of blood. NDN ways are not a blood line. It is a way of life and we should respect and welcome ALL NDN people. Papers and cards are the governments way of keeping a grip on the NDN nations. We should cut ties from this ignorant way of thinking. All who walk the red road, are related.

Mitaku Oyasin

dancing bear · 10-10-2001, 05:20 PM

Bucks cares if you are Native or not?? wow... :p
Next time I'm up in the Dakotas I'd better bring something, sheesh!!!!

Long Otter · 10-10-2001, 05:22 PM

Sorry guys, but I have to agree with carding at times. All a person has to do is attend some pow-wows in PA that I've seen to understand whay "carding" is not such a bad idea. Too many times I've seen where non-Indians (both those who claim to be Indian and are not, and those who claim their true race) make an absolute mockery and embarassment out of our heritage and culture. No disrespect NDNRevolution, but it takes more than hearing the "beat of the drum" or following the "red road" as some folks' terminology puts it to make one an Indian. Carding is one way for us to hold on to what still belongs to us, irregardless of what the governments intentions might be because of it.

10-03-2001, 12:48 PM	#1 (permalink)
Beardancer Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Ft. Bragg NC Posts: 26	Getting carded Here's a question for thought. When I register at powwows its not unusual for me to get carded to show proof of tribal membership. This due to my dirty blonde hair and blue eyes-thanks DAD hehe. Now, at a powwow in GA I was carded by a Department of Natural Resources official in question to my possesion of hawk feathers. I showed him my tribal card and nothing else was said. I'm just wondering how frequently anyone else gets the thrid degree out there and if its based by region. For example I heard they are less stringent in the west- thought comments... Doug

10-03-2001, 02:10 PM	#2 (permalink)
NDNQt PowWows.com Addicts Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Aylett, VA Posts: 1,076	I did get carded at Fayetteville's pow-wow one year. And I am Lumbee but they didn't know me and I can't blame them, I have reddish-brown hair and am light skinned and they didn't know me from Adam and Eve. But I cannot say that I know anyone who has been carded for feathers just for dancing. __________________ Becky B.

10-03-2001, 04:59 PM	#4 (permalink)
Ayita16 Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Indian Country Posts: 65	I think in GA they are trying to get rid of the fakes and new agers! I live in GA and go to powwows frequently and stuff and i get carded and stuff but i am getting my card soon. but some people can get pretty rude when they card you. this one guy got in my face, and even gave me the look like you are a hlaf breed you don't belong in the arena thats what i got out of his look. But he was very rude to me! ANd i am only 15!! ~Ayita16~ :D __________________ ~NATIVE PRIDE~

10-03-2001, 06:33 PM	#5 (permalink)
powwow john Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: in ya Posts: 3	what the heck is a new ager __________________ what up

10-05-2001, 10:00 PM	#8 (permalink)
Tvskekee Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Georgia Posts: 71	Out here on the East coast carding does weed out many of the new agers and born again cherokee's. Bloody Medicine Face - If you dont know what a new ager is then you better make some room at your place cause I, for one, want to live wherever you do adn Im sure many other people here would too!!-lol Ive never been carded before when I lived out west, it was no big deal. Havent been carded back here on the east coast either, I think its all about the looks sometimes. Like one time when I was stationed in Texas a Gros Ventre friend of mine Catcher CutsTheRope went to dance at this one powwow. Ol blu eyed, blond haired Texas cherokee lady asked him for his card.... his reply " Lady look at me, do I look like a need f..ing card to prove to your white a** that Im ndn?" well, I agree, he could have handled it better but the look of utter shock on her face was enough to make everyone die laughing, memorable, caught him on a bad day :) I do not recommend this approach to being carded-just for the record :D __________________ A Warrior without character is nothing more than a brute. I have lots of freinds, you just cant see them:)

10-03-2001, 03:43 PM	#3 (permalink)
lightningflash Junior Dancer Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Oregon Posts: 112	Maybe it's an eastern thing - I've never seen any carding at powwows in the NW, either for feathers or to contest dance. Most people I know don't carry their cards with them, so there'd be alot of people pretty pi$$ed off if they did...

10-05-2001, 08:55 PM	#6 (permalink)
dancing bear mtn lover.. Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: wyoming now.. originally from new mexico though.. but summer is coming.. so my tent or my car.. Posts: 125	Card?? I don't need no stinkin' card!! :D Seriously, I've never carried one and have not had any trouble either. But, of coarse, that's just me.. :D Oso

10-05-2001, 09:21 PM	#7 (permalink)
Tuscaroran Guest Posts: n/a	I think it has to be east/southeastern thing. But I don't believe that just because someone carries a card that total excludes them from the "freakish" category. I have been to some Powwow's and have seen some natives and have been like, "Huh?" Then on the other hand I know of plenty of non-natives who treat our culture with more respect than some of us do. I do think it serves a purpose to an extent (like CYA when the Feds Feathers Busters show up), but I'd like to see it done away with or some other alternate used. I've also heard of a Powwow(s) were certain dancers were "carded" to keep them from dancing/competing, but when the "carding police" made checks of all the dancers only 4 had cards and the rest of the 200 or so dancers didn't or weren't legal in the first place But in all honesty I wish the only time I have to be carded is when I try to get in the club :D

10-07-2001, 06:16 PM	#9 (permalink)
~~MizzQaqimat~~ Jingle Dancer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Presidio of Monterey, California Posts: 389	I haven't been carded all that much, but I was carded at a couple of powwows. I kinda like the carding thing...but I also don't. I have friends who can't compete because they don't have their cards, and some are more Native than I am. I hate that some people think that all Natives these days have black hair, dark skin, brown eyes, etc. Yes, I have all of these traits, all but my hair is a dark brown, not black. Anyway...I have a friend who's mom is full blood Lumbee, and her dad is white, but she happened to get blonde hair,blue eyes, and light skin. So, you see, we can't judge people's heritage by their looks. Although, I have to say, I like a dark Native guy, lol. __________________ TARHEEL BORN, TARHEEL BRED, WHEN I DIE I'LL BE TARHEEL DEAD! MizzQaqimat's Space

10-07-2001, 08:59 PM	#10 (permalink)
yishdioh Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: UT Posts: 15	I've seen flyers for larger powwows that warn that proof will be required, but have never seen anyone actually ask for it in our area. They might post that you have to be at least one fourth Native, but usually don't challenge anyone. Our family is Navajo and we don't have any cards. Our only proof is from tribal enrollment. There are some local people who are white but have been accepted in the powwow circle. Some have been adopted into tribes and others married in. They take it all very seriously and don't get much flack except from outsiders. I don't really see a need to card anyone. It doesn't take much to tell those who really care from those who are just playing Indian for the weekend. That should be enough for those judging. The outfits and the way they dance usually separate the serious dancer from the Boy Scout or new ager within the first minute of the song.

10-07-2001, 09:06 PM	#11 (permalink)
MayChe Minglin' N Jinglin' Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Flo' Da Posts: 1,120	i live in florida and some powwows in southern florida they card you to enter competition. i was offended that the Seminoles in Hollywood asked if I had a card but didnt ask my mom. I think they were going by skin color because i am a whole lot darker than my mom. __________________ Check me out on MySpace: www.myspace.com/mayasbored **~If your success is not on your own terms, if it looks good to the world but does not feel good in your heart, it is not success at all. ~**

10-09-2001, 05:08 PM	#12 (permalink)
lngfthr Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 82	Up here, we don't have cards, we have enrollment numbers. When I hear "getting carded", it means bouncers checking your ID at the door of the bar to see if you're old enough to drink! Hehehehee.... Come to think of it, I haven't been carded at Buck's in awhile. ****, must be getting old, huh, Sahnish? :p [ October 09, 2001: Message edited by: lngfthr ] __________________ Not better. Not worse. Just different.

10-09-2001, 11:28 PM	#13 (permalink)
Sahnish Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: North Dakota Posts: 67	Hey Lngfthr; you know I been wondering about that "card" business ever since I been reading about it on here. I always wanted a "card" so last month I was going south to a pow wow so i figured I better get me a card, in case I was carded. I had some printed up. I put "ME INDIAN" in capital letters just in case someone asked me for my "card." Well wouldn't you know it, they carded me, but they wanted more identification so I asked if they had a mirror, they said, "yes we do," and gave it to me. I looked in the mirror and said "That's me, alright." They let me dance after that. You know lngfthr, I heard you had trouble getting into Canada so if you want I will give you my extra card, but you are going to have to get your own mirror tho. You know, now that you mention it, I wasn't carded last time I was at Buck's either. Of course I knew the bouncer tho, so maybe that was why, ennit.. __________________ Sahnish "There is nothing more dangerous than ignorance in action."

10-10-2001, 11:14 AM	#14 (permalink)
lngfthr Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 82	LMIAO...you're too much, Sahnish! :D __________________ Not better. Not worse. Just different.

10-10-2001, 11:32 AM	#15 (permalink)
hidatsachic24 Guest Posts: n/a	You know I do understand about being carded..I was at the Denver powwow and I was carded there I felt kind of insulted. I don't usually bring my card with me unless for medical reasons when i go visit family on the rez...What's the point of being carded? I just feel like I'm being labeled when I get carded. The point of dancing at a powwow isn't to be carded everyone has the right to dance regardless if their registered or not...I have a friend who didnt have her kids registered because she has a reason. So does that exclude them to dance as well. I think that all powwows should be more open and so less uptight about cards..It's only a piece of paper nothing more. Ya know? :)

10-10-2001, 03:24 PM	#16 (permalink)
Tvskekee Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Georgia Posts: 71	I have the final say in who dances and who doesnta t this upcomgin powwow. Dont worry about not having your pedigree papers, just dont show up in a wal mart pocahontas outfit and youll be good to go :) __________________ A Warrior without character is nothing more than a brute. I have lots of freinds, you just cant see them:)

10-10-2001, 03:42 PM	#17 (permalink)
NDNRevolution Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Powwow Trail Posts: 2	It is sad that the US government makes NDN people the only people on earth to have papers to define who they are. It is becoming even sadder that now at gatherings that you must have proof of blood. NDN ways are not a blood line. It is a way of life and we should respect and welcome ALL NDN people. Papers and cards are the governments way of keeping a grip on the NDN nations. We should cut ties from this ignorant way of thinking. All who walk the red road, are related. Mitaku Oyasin

10-10-2001, 05:20 PM	#18 (permalink)
dancing bear mtn lover.. Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: wyoming now.. originally from new mexico though.. but summer is coming.. so my tent or my car.. Posts: 125	Bucks cares if you are Native or not?? wow... :p Next time I'm up in the Dakotas I'd better bring something, sheesh!!!!

10-10-2001, 05:22 PM	#19 (permalink)
Long Otter Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Somewhere Up North Posts: 13	Sorry guys, but I have to agree with carding at times. All a person has to do is attend some pow-wows in PA that I've seen to understand whay "carding" is not such a bad idea. Too many times I've seen where non-Indians (both those who claim to be Indian and are not, and those who claim their true race) make an absolute mockery and embarassment out of our heritage and culture. No disrespect NDNRevolution, but it takes more than hearing the "beat of the drum" or following the "red road" as some folks' terminology puts it to make one an Indian. Carding is one way for us to hold on to what still belongs to us, irregardless of what the governments intentions might be because of it.