flat fan

dance till you die · 11-26-2003, 06:47 AM

ok i have all the feathers i'm going to use but i don't know what to use for a handle ? do you guy have any ideas

MissTlingitAchievement · 11-26-2003, 07:15 AM

Wood, usually pine I think.

Tibiki Kinew · 11-26-2003, 08:55 AM

I only ever use cedar, it keeps the moths away! I always have a pile in my basement drying over the years for handles and bolo ties and for general carving.
I even make small animals to put in dresser drawers to keep bugs away. They hate cedar.

Tibiki Kinew · 11-26-2003, 11:50 AM

Shuks when I use my bench sander I shape it real fast with cedar. Then all that is left to do is drill holes for the feathers, that in all takes less than 15 minutes to do. Your bondo takes longer to do and stinks as well!!!

ron red eagle · 11-26-2003, 11:59 AM

I've had real good experience with a dremmel tool as well for shaping those things. I perfer a wooden handle (cedar if you can get it) otherwise any sort of wood. Of course the fan is placed into a large 100 year old cedar chest which helps A LOT!!!

ron red eagle · 11-26-2003, 01:16 PM

would that work as well with a cast premade??

yuchgeha · 11-27-2003, 10:03 AM

Straightdancerinaz can you email me the pdf file you mentioned? I've been wanting to try the bondo method of making a handle. Thanks!

powwowbum49 · 11-27-2003, 02:17 PM

The other 'FAST' method is to use hot glue I can have a fan done start to finish in an hour (now that finish doesn't include beadwork of course). Like the bondo method the fan also looks as if the tail was still on the bird. the actual handle on these is made from a dowel rod, and very minimal carving is required. (ie cutting a notch at the top to allow the feathers to sit in and the thinning it down at the bottom to handle the fringe. Any wood will do...soft woods like cedar and pine carve quicker than hard woods like ash and oak, but the hard woods are naturally stronger.

The process of putting the fan together is simple in that you just glue the feathers together in pairs and then glue the pairs together until the whole tail/wing are together. Then you glue that to the handle where you have cut the notch in and start building up the hot glue over that to form what ever shape you want fan to have where the handle flares out to meet the feather.

There are just few things to remember...Always use HIGH TEMP glue...use the hot tip of the gun to shape the glue as you build it up...and finally remember this is a layering process

Tsiniti · 11-27-2003, 05:26 PM

Crayola Sculpty clay works well too! Air dry's!

dance till you die · 11-27-2003, 07:06 PM

thanks for all your help
you talk about a dowl rod what do you mean by that

Czechy · 11-28-2003, 01:56 PM

Check out the latest Whispering Wind magazine. Go the Links section at the top of this page. Several suppliers carry it, including Written Heritage. The magazine has a feature article on how to construct a flat fan from start to finish with basic beadwork hints too. Should cost you about $4.50 for a copy.

Czechy · 11-28-2003, 01:58 PM

I should mention the article is in vol. 33 no. 4.

dance till you die · 11-28-2003, 02:30 PM

thanks Czechy i'll do that

C_Rock77 · 01-02-2004, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Czechy
Check out the latest Whispering Wind magazine. Go the Links section at the top of this page. Several suppliers carry it, including Written Heritage. The magazine has a feature article on how to construct a flat fan from start to finish with basic beadwork hints too. Should cost you about $4.50 for a copy.

They've got a craft annual that has an article on it, too.

One idea for a handle I've heard of is sort of a hybrid between the wooden blank and the bondo method. It uses a wooden spoon and you put bondo around it. I'm not a fan builder, but I have some good friends that are excellent fan craftsmen, and they use that method or the bondo/dowel method.

whiteeagle · 01-05-2004, 12:56 AM

:( all this talk of bondo and glue yuk!
the traditional ways are best Feathers, Cedar wood, leather, and beadwork
are best and are all natural things provided by the Great Spirit and Mother Earth. Using the white mans chemicals may be quick but it is not grandfathers way. Back in the day there was no such things as bondo and glues and such as that, and the fans and other regalia and crafts have lasted a long time when taken care of properly.

IMHO

May Buffalo, Bear, and Eagle lead your way and may your trek on mother earth be long

C_Rock77 · 01-05-2004, 01:19 AM

I guess you don't like 9 out of 10 of the flat fans at any given powwow...

Just because you use modern materials and methods doesn't mean you aren't honoring the traditional ways.

Look at beadwork and quillwork. Quillwork was THE traditional way of decorating moccasins, shirts, leggings and such. Are you going to sit there and say that the movement of using the "white man's" beads to decorate these items was wrong? Now, beadwork with these beads isn't questioned by even the most traditional of people. I don't see the use of glues and bondo and such materials as ANY different from the use of the "white man's" beads. Face it... NDN people used and still use methods and materials that were state of the art and modern for their times. This is a vibrant and living culture. Why should you stay stagnant?

What's your opinion of fancy dance? Fancy Dance was a movement started by a few young men who wanted to do things in a new way. I'm sure you'd be one of the old sticks in the mud that didn't like that movement when it started, either.

whiteeagle · 01-05-2004, 02:24 AM

true I am an elder and as you say a stick in the mud and however
I believe is of no concern here, but I feel that natural products are connected to the creator and therefore better.... as far as dancing is concerned, that is a way of life for the young and old NDN, and as such all dances whether new or old, traditional or modern they are a tribute to the Creator........I am also against AIM, not for what it stands for but for the way it is carried out, I also think that NDNs should live where they please not stuck on some rez where the whiteman planted us, to keep us out of his hair (sorry for the pun) I also think that we should not have to carry a card stating who we are, the blacks, mexicans, asians, europeans don't need a card and we shouldn't either....there are no Bureau of (place nationality here) affairs just the BIA and I think that that is wrong also...We are tracked and watched like criminals, when it is the whiteman that is the criminal... the theif, murderer, plunderer, we are the first nation, the caretakers of Mother Earth the chosen peoples of the Creator, and such, hold a place of honor among the peoples of Mother Earth....phew I am sorry but when I get wound up I can't quit....use your bondo and glues and do the fancy dance, I just prefer to use the traditional ways and natural products :)

11-26-2003, 06:47 AM	#1 (permalink)
dance till you die Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 60	flat fan ok i have all the feathers i'm going to use but i don't know what to use for a handle ? do you guy have any ideas

11-26-2003, 07:15 AM	#2 (permalink)
MissTlingitAchievement Alaskan Tlingit Woman Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Juneau, Alaska Posts: 392	Wood, usually pine I think. __________________ I didn't do it, honestly. I have burned all the proof.

11-26-2003, 08:55 AM	#3 (permalink)
Tibiki Kinew Listen to my heart! Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Pikwakanagan, Yes Golden Lake Ontario Posts: 718	I only ever use cedar, it keeps the moths away! I always have a pile in my basement drying over the years for handles and bolo ties and for general carving. I even make small animals to put in dresser drawers to keep bugs away. They hate cedar. __________________ Listen to my heart, not just my mouth! The most powerfull thing we can do is,,,share,,, if we don't it dies with us. The Children are our Future, without them we leave nothing behind but our silence... Listen to the wind,,, it has so many secrets.... especially never assume who I am, you may get a surprize you are not ready for! Remember being Heyoka doesn't mean I am crazy, just having fun!!! Born in Winnipeg raised in the Pikwakanagan, Deutschland was never home!

11-26-2003, 11:50 AM	#4 (permalink)
Tibiki Kinew Listen to my heart! Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Pikwakanagan, Yes Golden Lake Ontario Posts: 718	Shuks when I use my bench sander I shape it real fast with cedar. Then all that is left to do is drill holes for the feathers, that in all takes less than 15 minutes to do. Your bondo takes longer to do and stinks as well!!! __________________ Listen to my heart, not just my mouth! The most powerfull thing we can do is,,,share,,, if we don't it dies with us. The Children are our Future, without them we leave nothing behind but our silence... Listen to the wind,,, it has so many secrets.... especially never assume who I am, you may get a surprize you are not ready for! Remember being Heyoka doesn't mean I am crazy, just having fun!!! Born in Winnipeg raised in the Pikwakanagan, Deutschland was never home!

11-27-2003, 02:17 PM	#8 (permalink)
powwowbum49 Arena Director Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: midwest, USA Posts: 810	The other 'FAST' method is to use hot glue I can have a fan done start to finish in an hour (now that finish doesn't include beadwork of course). Like the bondo method the fan also looks as if the tail was still on the bird. the actual handle on these is made from a dowel rod, and very minimal carving is required. (ie cutting a notch at the top to allow the feathers to sit in and the thinning it down at the bottom to handle the fringe. Any wood will do...soft woods like cedar and pine carve quicker than hard woods like ash and oak, but the hard woods are naturally stronger. The process of putting the fan together is simple in that you just glue the feathers together in pairs and then glue the pairs together until the whole tail/wing are together. Then you glue that to the handle where you have cut the notch in and start building up the hot glue over that to form what ever shape you want fan to have where the handle flares out to meet the feather. There are just few things to remember...Always use HIGH TEMP glue...use the hot tip of the gun to shape the glue as you build it up...and finally remember this is a layering process __________________ PB49 "Every child is an artist. The problem is how to remain an artist once we grow up." Pablo Picasso My comments are based on what I have been taught and my experiences over the years I have been around the circle. They should in no way be taken as gospel truths and are merely my opinions or attempts at passing on what I have learned while still learning more.

11-26-2003, 11:59 AM	#5 (permalink)
ron red eagle Champion Dancer Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Tenn Posts: 1,183	I've had real good experience with a dremmel tool as well for shaping those things. I perfer a wooden handle (cedar if you can get it) otherwise any sort of wood. Of course the fan is placed into a large 100 year old cedar chest which helps A LOT!!!

11-26-2003, 01:16 PM	#6 (permalink)
ron red eagle Champion Dancer Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Tenn Posts: 1,183	would that work as well with a cast premade??

11-27-2003, 10:03 AM	#7 (permalink)
yuchgeha Junior Dancer Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Kansas Posts: 184	Straightdancerinaz can you email me the pdf file you mentioned? I've been wanting to try the bondo method of making a handle. Thanks!

11-27-2003, 05:26 PM	#9 (permalink)
Tsiniti Dancin n Vendin Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: TN Posts: 295	Crayola Sculpty clay works well too! Air dry's! __________________ Your Heart Shows by how Your Words and Actions Affect Others. Nah I ain't NO WANNABE! I don't gotta wannabe when people wannabe like me!

11-27-2003, 07:06 PM	#10 (permalink)
dance till you die Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 60	thanks for all your help you talk about a dowl rod what do you mean by that

11-28-2003, 01:56 PM	#11 (permalink)
Czechy wrapped in ribbonwork! Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Here....for now Posts: 781	instructions Check out the latest Whispering Wind magazine. Go the Links section at the top of this page. Several suppliers carry it, including Written Heritage. The magazine has a feature article on how to construct a flat fan from start to finish with basic beadwork hints too. Should cost you about $4.50 for a copy.

11-28-2003, 01:58 PM	#12 (permalink)
Czechy wrapped in ribbonwork! Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Here....for now Posts: 781	I should mention the article is in vol. 33 no. 4.

11-28-2003, 02:30 PM	#13 (permalink)
dance till you die Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 60	thanks Czechy i'll do that

01-05-2004, 12:56 AM	#15 (permalink)
whiteeagle Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 7	:( all this talk of bondo and glue yuk! the traditional ways are best Feathers, Cedar wood, leather, and beadwork are best and are all natural things provided by the Great Spirit and Mother Earth. Using the white mans chemicals may be quick but it is not grandfathers way. Back in the day there was no such things as bondo and glues and such as that, and the fans and other regalia and crafts have lasted a long time when taken care of properly. IMHO May Buffalo, Bear, and Eagle lead your way and may your trek on mother earth be long

01-05-2004, 01:19 AM	#16 (permalink)
C_Rock77 Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Little Rock, AR Posts: 88	I guess you don't like 9 out of 10 of the flat fans at any given powwow... Just because you use modern materials and methods doesn't mean you aren't honoring the traditional ways. Look at beadwork and quillwork. Quillwork was THE traditional way of decorating moccasins, shirts, leggings and such. Are you going to sit there and say that the movement of using the "white man's" beads to decorate these items was wrong? Now, beadwork with these beads isn't questioned by even the most traditional of people. I don't see the use of glues and bondo and such materials as ANY different from the use of the "white man's" beads. Face it... NDN people used and still use methods and materials that were state of the art and modern for their times. This is a vibrant and living culture. Why should you stay stagnant? What's your opinion of fancy dance? Fancy Dance was a movement started by a few young men who wanted to do things in a new way. I'm sure you'd be one of the old sticks in the mud that didn't like that movement when it started, either. Last edited by C_Rock77; 01-05-2004 at 01:23 AM.

01-05-2004, 02:24 AM	#17 (permalink)
whiteeagle Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 7	true I am an elder and as you say a stick in the mud and however I believe is of no concern here, but I feel that natural products are connected to the creator and therefore better.... as far as dancing is concerned, that is a way of life for the young and old NDN, and as such all dances whether new or old, traditional or modern they are a tribute to the Creator........I am also against AIM, not for what it stands for but for the way it is carried out, I also think that NDNs should live where they please not stuck on some rez where the whiteman planted us, to keep us out of his hair (sorry for the pun) I also think that we should not have to carry a card stating who we are, the blacks, mexicans, asians, europeans don't need a card and we shouldn't either....there are no Bureau of (place nationality here) affairs just the BIA and I think that that is wrong also...We are tracked and watched like criminals, when it is the whiteman that is the criminal... the theif, murderer, plunderer, we are the first nation, the caretakers of Mother Earth the chosen peoples of the Creator, and such, hold a place of honor among the peoples of Mother Earth....phew I am sorry but when I get wound up I can't quit....use your bondo and glues and do the fancy dance, I just prefer to use the traditional ways and natural products :)

01-05-2004, 03:43 AM	#18 (permalink)
Blackbear Space Cowboy Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Alaska Posts: 9,618