Bustle Construction - Page 5

hutsibah · 10-05-2004, 12:26 PM

I want to make a set of aprons and top for a friend, however I'm kinda confused on how to make the top. I have seen guys with vests, and others wearing - what looks like a bib with a vest back. I was wondering about the second style, is it a vest with a bib sewn on or how is this made? If you could please post some pics, that would help me out alot.

Also with the aprons, are they separate or sewn onto a strip of material-like belt?

little spirit belt · 10-10-2004, 06:50 PM

hello - My son is making his first fancy dance costume and we have used many of your ideas and I want to thank you for them. I just read that you had posted pictures of your bases and since a visual would really help can you tell me where to go to see these pictures. Thank you

CherokeeScoutCB · 11-09-2004, 12:27 AM

as a fancy dancer I thought you woud be a very good person to ask this question. On my traditional bustle I want to put ungodly amounts of ribbon on the end of every feather. maby up to 4 pieces of 20 inces long on the end of turkey wing feathers. Is there any way to strengthen the feathers or do anything just to help my chances of keeping the ribbon from breaking the tip right off of it and is there a type of glue that you know of that wont look bad on the end of the feathers
im hopeing there is a fancy dancer trade secret that woud be perfect for my situation. all help is greatly appreciated

bwhite · 11-09-2004, 09:19 AM

Wow, that's a lot of ribbon. 20" long,... you must be tall. Glue a small bamboo skewer down the back side of the quill to add some strength. As for the glue, I'm not too sure what to use there. Good luck.

CherokeeScoutCB · 11-09-2004, 11:30 PM

thanks for the tip on the bamboo skewer, and im only 5'6 and I may shorten the ribbon on the bottom of my bustle but I just seem to like ribbon more than horsehair so thats what im useing on most of my regailia. once I get my visor done I may put ribbon on it or I may not, If I do I am going to have to get confident enough to dance without seeing where I am going. It will cover my shoulder feathers probably just as thick so thanks for the tip Ill b useing it alot

crazywolf · 01-02-2005, 10:49 PM

Boozhoo niji,

I erad the last couple of posts, and I have seeena couple I thought I could share my experience.

I have used two kinds of glues, one is called Gemtak, and you can buy it at Wal Mart. It sorta looks/smells like elmers, and dries clear but is a lot stronger. They claim it will glue rhinestones to fabric and stay on there in the wash, so if it is really that good then it should be strong enough for bustle work. It is! I use it for all my feather work, at the tips.

Second, is Liquid Nails, the clear stuff labeled for small projects, found at any DIY store. I use this for the quill loops, where the feathers attach at the back boards. It dries fairly quick and is unbeatable for its strength and durablility.

Finally I gota quick tip for anyone that has ever had one of those annoying people crash into you outside the arena, and bust off a feather tip or two. Make an emergency kit from the Liquid Nails and a card of sewing needles, not machine needles, and try to get a card with different sizes. Hopefully your tip did not break inside the hackles (I got a tip to prevent that) and you can glue the needle inside the quill. Use one that is large enough to fit tight without splitting the quill, use needle nose pliers to insert it into each side of the break for 1/2 the length of the needle, and then use a liberal amount of the glue, and fix the feather. If done right (practice makes perfect) you will not even be able to tell its broken.

More often than not, mine break right where the webbing has been trimmed and the first row of hackles are tied on, this is why you wont see it, the webbing seldom gets damaged. I have about 6 spikes broken this way, and I challenge anyone to find them, if I stand still long enough to let ya check! The judges will never see em.

Derek

laqsilver · 04-29-2005, 11:23 AM

what is the difference between northern and southern fancy bustles now? If any??? While I am at it what is biggest problem you see with keeping feathers attached to your spreader??? I have seen so much tape used, I could open my personal tape booth just for fancy dancers. Let me know!!!

nativeveteran · 05-26-2005, 11:47 PM

Hello there,

Can anyone of you experienced bustle makers, help me in the construction of the Base Boards? Im the father of two grass dancers and the oldest son wants to step the pace to lights speed, rather than grass speed, lol. If anyone of you have a picture design type that is sturdy or any good direction of making one please post pic or a good detailed reply. Thank you.

NativeVeteran

charliemom · 06-08-2005, 08:51 PM

My question is how many ounces does one buy for a 36 spike bustle for a short 10 yr old? I think 3 colors. I see the price of the hackles have gone up. So I need to know.
Thank you for any help that you give.

bwhite · 06-09-2005, 10:07 AM

My bustles have 46 spikes. I buy four ounces per row of color per bustle.

With 36 spike bustles, you may be able to get away with two ounces per row per bustle. With that, you'd have to stretch an ounce of hackles over 18 spikes. That's cutting it real close. I'd go with three ounces of hackles per row of color per bustle to make it fuller and give you some extra left over.

charliemom · 06-09-2005, 02:41 PM

Thank you for the information on the ounces needed for a set of bustles.

lilmarty · 06-16-2005, 05:51 PM

bwhite, how did attach the snap swivel to the feather?

Also, has anyone else seen or heard of this...instead of using dowels to extend the feather length...using the plastic tubing you can purchase at like home deport. It is a long flexible plastic tubing that you can attach the feather spike to by using glue and slipping the feather into the tube. I used this on my last bustle pair...It has held up for nearly 8 years. The tubing is nice because it does not break like the dowels. It is also much easier to assemble since you can string the primary string right through the tubing without ever attaching a leather/plastic loop. However, I a changed my color scheme and am making a new bustle set and am debating whether to use this method or the dowel method. how do the dowels hold up over a long period of time?

sookout sh'nob · 06-16-2005, 08:16 PM

I've had the same dowls for 6 years BUT ... i have problems with my two lead dowels snapping off way to frequently... I'm thinkin aboug some sort of graphite rod (fishing rid anyone?) as the extenders for the main post /lead feathers.

crazywolf · 06-16-2005, 11:04 PM

Boozhoo niji,

You must be dancing pretty hard to bust a dowel rod. But then again I am using 1/4" for mine, never had one bust on me. Never heard of these plastic tubes either. For some reason drinking straws seem to come to mind and they would seem as flimsy.

I am wondering if I can go with smaller dowel, to save on weight and exactly how small I can get away with. I am pondering making a new set of bustles, but since my set aint wore out yet, I got plenty of time to contemplate this.

Sookout, I use a 3/16" steel dowel to support the bustle. You can get them in three foot lengths at the DIY stores, and they are extremely sturdy. You have to have a vise and a good hammer to work it, clamp it in the vise and bend it slowly with the hammer, tap it dont smack it. Make careful measurements and only bend it once as well. You cant bend it twice, it makes the metal brittle and liable to snap, but you can put some pretty sharp bends, and even S bends, and it will hold its shape. I have used the same steel in two sets of bustles, meaning, I recycled the origonal, so they are about 8 years old, and they are still holding up.

I used one piece of steel forboth sides, basically think of a V shape. You drill a couple of holes in your backboard, in the below the center about an inch apart. Bend your dowel in half, making a square U that will go through the holes, then bend that upward, towards the top of the bustle. Then spread that into the familiar v shape. You will have to mess with the angle and everything, to get it right for your stuff. Everyone has different dimensions for their outfits.

Oh yeah, drill a couple of holes close to the top, each one being outside of the V. Then you can take some artificial sinew and wrap through there about 20 times and tie it off. That holds the dowels upright, and also makes a bulletproof place to hang your bustle on something, like onthe wall at home, or on something while you are getting dressed. I take mine and stack em one inside the other, puta towel inbetween, and run a dog chain through there, then hook the ends with a shower curtain ring, makes for carrying the things easier at pow wows or whatever. Tie a knot in your chin strings and put your roach in there too.

Derek

lilmarty · 06-17-2005, 01:00 PM

I used to use wood dowels as well for the top feathers and they kept breaking all time. I switched to used the fiberglass rods you can buy to create drumsticks. You can purchase those through Buffalo Chips in Billings, MT. Their website is www.buffalochipsindianart.com; however, only about 2% of their supplies are online so if there is anything not there you may have to call and ask.

lilmarty · 06-22-2005, 03:30 PM

Another thing I have done during fancy bustle construction is after straightening the feathers and prior to attaching hackles...I have tied a wire along the length of the feather...the wire is 16 gauge gardening wire...you can buy them in lengths of about 18 inches or so. I found that this strengthens the feater and if some one bumps into you while dancing (the reason I started doing this) you don't lose a bustle tip...the feather may break but the wire does not; allowing you to bend it back into place.

You can also twist a loop at the end of the wire...this is what I tie my ribbon/flagging to...allowing you to change or replace the flagging as needed.

10-05-2004, 12:26 PM	#81 (permalink)
hutsibah Junior Dancer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 154	Fancy Bustle regalia pattern help... I want to make a set of aprons and top for a friend, however I'm kinda confused on how to make the top. I have seen guys with vests, and others wearing - what looks like a bib with a vest back. I was wondering about the second style, is it a vest with a bib sewn on or how is this made? If you could please post some pics, that would help me out alot. Also with the aprons, are they separate or sewn onto a strip of material-like belt?

10-10-2004, 06:50 PM	#82 (permalink)
little spirit belt Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1	hello - My son is making his first fancy dance costume and we have used many of your ideas and I want to thank you for them. I just read that you had posted pictures of your bases and since a visual would really help can you tell me where to go to see these pictures. Thank you Last edited by little spirit belt; 10-13-2004 at 04:08 PM.

11-09-2004, 12:27 AM	#83 (permalink)
CherokeeScoutCB Registered User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Alabama Posts: 34	A traditional dancer would like to know as a fancy dancer I thought you woud be a very good person to ask this question. On my traditional bustle I want to put ungodly amounts of ribbon on the end of every feather. maby up to 4 pieces of 20 inces long on the end of turkey wing feathers. Is there any way to strengthen the feathers or do anything just to help my chances of keeping the ribbon from breaking the tip right off of it and is there a type of glue that you know of that wont look bad on the end of the feathers im hopeing there is a fancy dancer trade secret that woud be perfect for my situation. all help is greatly appreciated

11-09-2004, 09:19 AM	#84 (permalink)
bwhite Teen Dancer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: wilmington, nc, usa Posts: 300	Wow, that's a lot of ribbon. 20" long,... you must be tall. Glue a small bamboo skewer down the back side of the quill to add some strength. As for the glue, I'm not too sure what to use there. Good luck. __________________ If you are what you eat.... I'm fast, cheap and easy.

01-02-2005, 10:49 PM	#86 (permalink)
crazywolf crazywolf Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: unsettled for now, MN Posts: 867 Blog Entries: 5	couple of tips Boozhoo niji, I erad the last couple of posts, and I have seeena couple I thought I could share my experience. I have used two kinds of glues, one is called Gemtak, and you can buy it at Wal Mart. It sorta looks/smells like elmers, and dries clear but is a lot stronger. They claim it will glue rhinestones to fabric and stay on there in the wash, so if it is really that good then it should be strong enough for bustle work. It is! I use it for all my feather work, at the tips. Second, is Liquid Nails, the clear stuff labeled for small projects, found at any DIY store. I use this for the quill loops, where the feathers attach at the back boards. It dries fairly quick and is unbeatable for its strength and durablility. Finally I gota quick tip for anyone that has ever had one of those annoying people crash into you outside the arena, and bust off a feather tip or two. Make an emergency kit from the Liquid Nails and a card of sewing needles, not machine needles, and try to get a card with different sizes. Hopefully your tip did not break inside the hackles (I got a tip to prevent that) and you can glue the needle inside the quill. Use one that is large enough to fit tight without splitting the quill, use needle nose pliers to insert it into each side of the break for 1/2 the length of the needle, and then use a liberal amount of the glue, and fix the feather. If done right (practice makes perfect) you will not even be able to tell its broken. More often than not, mine break right where the webbing has been trimmed and the first row of hackles are tied on, this is why you wont see it, the webbing seldom gets damaged. I have about 6 spikes broken this way, and I challenge anyone to find them, if I stand still long enough to let ya check! The judges will never see em. Derek

11-09-2004, 11:30 PM	#85 (permalink)
CherokeeScoutCB Registered User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Alabama Posts: 34	thanks for the tip on the bamboo skewer, and im only 5'6 and I may shorten the ribbon on the bottom of my bustle but I just seem to like ribbon more than horsehair so thats what im useing on most of my regailia. once I get my visor done I may put ribbon on it or I may not, If I do I am going to have to get confident enough to dance without seeing where I am going. It will cover my shoulder feathers probably just as thick so thanks for the tip Ill b useing it alot

04-29-2005, 11:23 AM	#87 (permalink)
laqsilver Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 14	question guys what is the difference between northern and southern fancy bustles now? If any??? While I am at it what is biggest problem you see with keeping feathers attached to your spreader??? I have seen so much tape used, I could open my personal tape booth just for fancy dancers. Let me know!!!

05-26-2005, 11:47 PM	#88 (permalink)
nativeveteran Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: May 2005 Location: Dunseith, North Dakota Posts: 8	Bustle Base Board Construction Hello there, Can anyone of you experienced bustle makers, help me in the construction of the Base Boards? Im the father of two grass dancers and the oldest son wants to step the pace to lights speed, rather than grass speed, lol. If anyone of you have a picture design type that is sturdy or any good direction of making one please post pic or a good detailed reply. Thank you. NativeVeteran

06-08-2005, 08:51 PM	#89 (permalink)
charliemom Senior Dancer Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: montana Posts: 756	Bustle Construction My question is how many ounces does one buy for a 36 spike bustle for a short 10 yr old? I think 3 colors. I see the price of the hackles have gone up. So I need to know. Thank you for any help that you give.

06-09-2005, 10:07 AM	#90 (permalink)
bwhite Teen Dancer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: wilmington, nc, usa Posts: 300	My bustles have 46 spikes. I buy four ounces per row of color per bustle. With 36 spike bustles, you may be able to get away with two ounces per row per bustle. With that, you'd have to stretch an ounce of hackles over 18 spikes. That's cutting it real close. I'd go with three ounces of hackles per row of color per bustle to make it fuller and give you some extra left over. __________________ If you are what you eat.... I'm fast, cheap and easy.

06-09-2005, 02:41 PM	#91 (permalink)
charliemom Senior Dancer Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: montana Posts: 756	Bustle Construction Thank you for the information on the ounces needed for a set of bustles.

06-16-2005, 05:51 PM	#92 (permalink)
lilmarty Dancer Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 28	bustle question bwhite, how did attach the snap swivel to the feather? Also, has anyone else seen or heard of this...instead of using dowels to extend the feather length...using the plastic tubing you can purchase at like home deport. It is a long flexible plastic tubing that you can attach the feather spike to by using glue and slipping the feather into the tube. I used this on my last bustle pair...It has held up for nearly 8 years. The tubing is nice because it does not break like the dowels. It is also much easier to assemble since you can string the primary string right through the tubing without ever attaching a leather/plastic loop. However, I a changed my color scheme and am making a new bustle set and am debating whether to use this method or the dowel method. how do the dowels hold up over a long period of time?

06-16-2005, 08:16 PM	#93 (permalink)
sookout sh'nob Boogie Monster Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 532	I've had the same dowls for 6 years BUT ... i have problems with my two lead dowels snapping off way to frequently... I'm thinkin aboug some sort of graphite rod (fishing rid anyone?) as the extenders for the main post /lead feathers.

06-16-2005, 11:04 PM	#94 (permalink)
crazywolf crazywolf Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: unsettled for now, MN Posts: 867 Blog Entries: 5	re bustle construction Boozhoo niji, You must be dancing pretty hard to bust a dowel rod. But then again I am using 1/4" for mine, never had one bust on me. Never heard of these plastic tubes either. For some reason drinking straws seem to come to mind and they would seem as flimsy. I am wondering if I can go with smaller dowel, to save on weight and exactly how small I can get away with. I am pondering making a new set of bustles, but since my set aint wore out yet, I got plenty of time to contemplate this. Sookout, I use a 3/16" steel dowel to support the bustle. You can get them in three foot lengths at the DIY stores, and they are extremely sturdy. You have to have a vise and a good hammer to work it, clamp it in the vise and bend it slowly with the hammer, tap it dont smack it. Make careful measurements and only bend it once as well. You cant bend it twice, it makes the metal brittle and liable to snap, but you can put some pretty sharp bends, and even S bends, and it will hold its shape. I have used the same steel in two sets of bustles, meaning, I recycled the origonal, so they are about 8 years old, and they are still holding up. I used one piece of steel forboth sides, basically think of a V shape. You drill a couple of holes in your backboard, in the below the center about an inch apart. Bend your dowel in half, making a square U that will go through the holes, then bend that upward, towards the top of the bustle. Then spread that into the familiar v shape. You will have to mess with the angle and everything, to get it right for your stuff. Everyone has different dimensions for their outfits. Oh yeah, drill a couple of holes close to the top, each one being outside of the V. Then you can take some artificial sinew and wrap through there about 20 times and tie it off. That holds the dowels upright, and also makes a bulletproof place to hang your bustle on something, like onthe wall at home, or on something while you are getting dressed. I take mine and stack em one inside the other, puta towel inbetween, and run a dog chain through there, then hook the ends with a shower curtain ring, makes for carrying the things easier at pow wows or whatever. Tie a knot in your chin strings and put your roach in there too. Derek

06-17-2005, 01:00 PM	#95 (permalink)
lilmarty Dancer Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 28	top dowels I used to use wood dowels as well for the top feathers and they kept breaking all time. I switched to used the fiberglass rods you can buy to create drumsticks. You can purchase those through Buffalo Chips in Billings, MT. Their website is www.buffalochipsindianart.com; however, only about 2% of their supplies are online so if there is anything not there you may have to call and ask.

06-22-2005, 03:30 PM	#96 (permalink)
lilmarty Dancer Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 28	Wire along the feathers Another thing I have done during fancy bustle construction is after straightening the feathers and prior to attaching hackles...I have tied a wire along the length of the feather...the wire is 16 gauge gardening wire...you can buy them in lengths of about 18 inches or so. I found that this strengthens the feater and if some one bumps into you while dancing (the reason I started doing this) you don't lose a bustle tip...the feather may break but the wire does not; allowing you to bend it back into place. You can also twist a loop at the end of the wire...this is what I tie my ribbon/flagging to...allowing you to change or replace the flagging as needed.