Pochahontas

Very good post. It will be interesting to see what some of the poeple on this list will say.

As for me, I will say that there is a tendancy for Cheyenne lane stitch to be more flat than other styles. This is partially due to the technique employed. Cheyenne's occasionally used what some people call "loop stitch." It's not a very good term though.

The flatness of the beadwork is a minor characteristic at best. For example, many Sioux pieces are as flat (or flatter), and Cheyenne work is occasionally very "humped." I would say that flatness would be a supportive characteristic in identifying Cheyenne beadwork. In other words, I would not hinge an "Is it Sioux or Cheyenne?" question solely on the flatness of the lanes. Is this what you are after, or am I way off.

By the way, what sources are you using?

PC

[ March 29, 2001: Message edited by: Pochahontas ]

wyat

PC Thanks for the reply. I am however confused about your message. Are you saying that Cheyenne (Northern) lazy stich is less flat than Lakota? I believe I read the "hupmy" stitch bit in a Whispering Wind and book but I can't think of the name.
I would like to learn more about Cheyenne bead work charecteristics. Whispering Wind has had several articles latley about women's legging's and men's & women's moccasins.
I am wanting to start making beadwork for a tradish. outfit.

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MWP

There have been several articles in recent issues of Whispering Wind magezine on Cheyenne beadwork. Maybe they would have some information that could help in your research.

MWP

wyat

The recent Whispering Wind articles are on Chenenne moccasins, women's leggings and they're very informative. Those recent articles do not address the issue of the flatter than usual lazy stitch which some author's view as a typical charecteristic of Cheyenne beadwork. My short research has thus far been limited to reading.

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thestogs

Wyat:
Arched rows are typical of Sioux-style beadwork since the stitch is placed next to the previous lane. Cheyenne-style beadwork is often "flatter" since the thread on one lane is hooked into the thread from the previous lane. The technique and flatter appearance is usually a true measure of Cheyenne-style beadwork -- if the colors and patterns used aren't an automatic giveaway. The book "Native American Beadwork" by Georg J. Barth shows and explains both techniques quite well. If you don't have a copy, it will be a great addition to your library. I hope this helps.

wyat

I am researching Cheyenne beadwork and have some questions. I read in 2 publications that Cheyenne lazy stitch is typically less "humped" than other lazy stich so it lays flatter. My question is; is this true and is this technique still used on dance clothing today? ;)

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tipis

"Cheyenne-style beadwork is often "flatter" since the thread on one lane is hooked into the thread from the previous lane."


This is really a little misleading in detail.
The next row of the beadwork is sewn in below the row above and not looping into the row above. Several of the old articles I have seen do not show this "looping" into another row. But becuase the rows are so close together and then pulled tight, it will give the appearance of almost flat work.

"The technique and flatter appearance is usually a true measure of Cheyenne-style beadwork -- if the colors and patterns used aren't an automatic giveaway. The book "Native American Beadwork" by Georg J. Barth shows and explains both techniques quite well. If you don't have a copy, it will be a great addition to your library. I hope this helps. [/b][/quote]

Barths book is a great addition to any library. He does hang around this site every so often. Maybe he will saying something on this topic.
BTW, some people over do the Sioux beadwork by over bumping the rows. Just a little will do. Some "bumping" is because the older leather has shrunk pushing the beadwork up.
THis is not in all cases, but a few. If you look at old beadwork, you see little of this exagerated "bumping".


tipis

wyat

Thank you all for your input. Have you ever seen the typical Cheyenne stripe or rectangle design on men's leggings or cuffs? I am having trouble finding articles of men's Cheyenne clothing besides bags & moccasins. ;)

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MrRuminator

You're right! There's a plethora of pipebags with this particular design but I think for the most part it's a design that is reserved for women. Now, this causes one to wonder if the pipebags are simply recycled womens leggings or what? Field Museum has an exquisite pair of Cheyenne Womens leggings on display with this classic beadwork design. Unfortunately, they're labeled, "Boys Leggings - Pawnee" It should also be pointed out that certain design elements as well as certain bead colors were regarded as "sacred colors" or "sacred beadwork" belonging exclusively to the Women's beadworkers guild. One gained membership by serving a long apprenticeship to an older member.

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lightningflash

I agree with the Stogs - I was taught beadwork by Cheyenne people and they always looped the second lane into the threads of the first lane. That's how the lazy stitch looks so much flatter. You don't actually go through the beads of the first lane, but when you pass your needle through the leather you hook into the THREADS of the first lane, so that when you draw it tight it pulls on those first-lane threads and pulls them flatter.

On the leggings, I have never seen the Cheyenne-strips (like what's used on women's leggings) on the men's outfits...

wyat

Mr.R that's what I suspected, I have not found any beaded articles labled as men's Cheyenne except for moccasins and pipe bags. Thanks

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tipis

Not all Cheyenne beadwork uses the method of going in behind the lines of beawork. Much of the old tradtional methods has the needle going behind or under and behind the place where the row above is located. You are going to find exceptions to all beawork and how it is made. It is hard to find what is clearly one tribe or another. I like to work with old traditional material and we never say one in indicative of a tribe or not. There have been too many cross-overs of tribes camping with each other. Even today you will find nothing is totaly set.

tipis

Suzizila

Does anybody have some good sources for Cheyenne designs that are appropriate for women's things? I have seen the articles in Whispering Wind about Cheyenne ladies' leggings and this old article in Moccasin Tracks about the Mohonk Lodge at Colony, OK, but have no other sources. Most of what I have seen are designs used on men's things.

Thanks! :)

[ April 02, 2001: Message edited by: Suzizila ]

whirlwind

Cheyenne Stripe Beadwork:

The Cheyenne also did the stripe pattern on mens bowcase-quiver setups. The patterns were similar to the women's leggings.

Whirlwind

Czechy

Wyat,
Are there particular items you are interested in? I have lots of photos of both Northern and Southern Cheyenne material. Tell me what you want and where to send it and I'll scan some in for you.

wyat

Czechy I would realy appreiate some pics of Northern Cheyenne men's clothing. I need research photos of mens beadwork/quillwork; leggings, cuffs, shirts, vests, anything really. I'm trying to identify typical colors and designs(besides the "stripe" design on women's leggings) associated with Northern Cheyenne.
Scaned photos would be great or I can make copies of photo's I'm interested in and mail them back to you. Pm me your email & snail mail address and we'll work in out.
Thanks

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Black Forest