Grand Entry question???

Barb · 06-30-2008, 02:38 PM

I dance Golden Age Tradtional which means we lead the Ladies in a Grand Entry. I was taught to never go infront of the flags to stop beside and dance on the spot. HOWEVER! I was at a Pow wow this weekend every Grand Entry the Lead Ladies passed infront of the flags to the other side. So could you please give me some comments.

**WocusWoman** · 06-30-2008, 09:20 PM

I think I get your question. I believe everyone should keep dancing until everyone has made it into the circle. However, its up to the Arena director to make sure he talks to the dancers in front and let them know where to dance to and where to stop.

WhoMe · 07-01-2008, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barb

I dance Golden Age Tradtional which means we lead the Ladies in a Grand Entry. I was taught to never go infront of the flags to stop beside and dance on the spot. HOWEVER! I was at a Pow wow this weekend every Grand Entry the Lead Ladies passed infront of the flags to the other side. So could you please give me some comments.

Barb,

This question is based on practicality.

If it was a mega powwow and the traditional women stopped before crossing in front of the flags, then some women at the end of the line may not be able to enter the arena.

Barb · 07-01-2008, 06:24 PM

I can see this, my confusion was that I was actually yelled at one time for going infront of them by one of the other Ladies.

they_drag_him · 07-01-2008, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barb

I can see this, my confusion was that I was actually yelled at one time for going infront of them by one of the other Ladies.

it depends also if the powwow is being held on reservation land or an indian community. here in crow creek, south dakota, i've noticed the same formation where the traditional ladies stop before the flag but the rest of the lady dancers move on.

owlsong · 07-02-2008, 11:12 PM

As a veteran and honor guard (flag carrier) for several years, no one is to pass in front of the head staff and flags, or at least in the pow-wows that I have attended around the Great Lakes. Protocal may be different depending on head vet and location, but I have never seen anyone pass in front of the head staff or flags.

Barb · 07-03-2008, 12:11 AM

Thankyou Oowlsong for your reply. One of my problems with what happened was that I see this action as you do, I have carried many flags over the years for different reasons. I actually felt quite embarassed and ashamed. I was also very serprized because I had never seen this done at any of the Pow wows I attend out here. I think one of the things that bothered me was none of the others seemed to be concerned about disrespecting the flag carriers and the flags. Thanks again.

**Kiwehnzii** · 07-03-2008, 12:55 AM

Grand entry

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As a veteran and honor guard (flag carrier) for several years, no one is to pass in front of the head staff and flags, or at least in the pow-wows that I have attended around the Great Lakes. Protocal may be different depending on head vet and location, but I have never seen anyone pass in front of the head staff or flags.

I am from the Great Lakes area.

Question. How are all the dancers ( I'm talkin' 400 or more) going to get into the arena if they all have to stop? This would create a bottleneck, wouldn't it?

I think you & I don't attend the same events.

Barb · 07-03-2008, 02:11 AM

What I forgot to explain was that every other Grand Entry I have been in the Traditional Ladies dance in until they are even to the flags along the outside of the circle and back up to make sure there is room for the other dancers to pass infront.

Barb · 07-03-2008, 02:13 AM

Forgot to ad I have danced in very small Arbors and rather large arenas sometimes 700-800 dancers and never had a problem.

they_drag_him · 07-03-2008, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barb

What I forgot to explain was that every other Grand Entry I have been in the Traditional Ladies dance in until they are even to the flags along the outside of the circle and back up to make sure there is room for the other dancers to pass infront.

this is what they do in crow creek, south dakota also.

owlsong · 07-03-2008, 07:28 PM

Gaa wiin daa-aangoshkigaazo ahaw enaabiyaan gaa-inaabid

We have managed to get several hundred people into the arena without a problem and without a bottleneck. The staff carrier(s) and arena director have circled all the dancers sometimes in several loops as not to cross in front of the staff and flags. Others have brought the dancers in sometimes three a time, it depends on the who is carring the staff.

My teachings tell me to cross in front of the staff and flags is disrespectful. Because others have different teachings does not make them right or wrong in comparison to others. Only the Kitchi Manitou is perfect.

Miigwetch

**Kiwehnzii** · 07-04-2008, 12:43 AM

You're right. Nobody is perfect.

I must be out of it. All the powwows that I've been to, are how barb described. Traditional ladies stop. All the rest keep going until the end of the song. The AD clears the area in front of the flags and staffs upon completion of grand entry. I don't believe we were being disrespectful.

But......... continue as you were and I'll continue as the AD directs us.

It's all good as long as we're all content.

owlsong · 07-05-2008, 12:05 AM

Thank you my friend. Perhaps we have or will dance together some day. Until then, baamaapii.

06-30-2008, 02:38 PM	#1 (permalink)
Barb Dragonfly Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Central Alberta Posts: 128	Grand Entry question??? I dance Golden Age Tradtional which means we lead the Ladies in a Grand Entry. I was taught to never go infront of the flags to stop beside and dance on the spot. HOWEVER! I was at a Pow wow this weekend every Grand Entry the Lead Ladies passed infront of the flags to the other side. So could you please give me some comments. __________________ ClothDancer02

07-01-2008, 06:24 PM	#4 (permalink)
Barb Dragonfly Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Central Alberta Posts: 128	I can see this, my confusion was that I was actually yelled at one time for going infront of them by one of the other Ladies. __________________ ClothDancer02

07-02-2008, 11:12 PM	#6 (permalink)
owlsong White tail Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: New Hudson, Michigan Posts: 32	Grand entry As a veteran and honor guard (flag carrier) for several years, no one is to pass in front of the head staff and flags, or at least in the pow-wows that I have attended around the Great Lakes. Protocal may be different depending on head vet and location, but I have never seen anyone pass in front of the head staff or flags.

07-03-2008, 12:11 AM	#7 (permalink)
Barb Dragonfly Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Central Alberta Posts: 128	Thankyou Oowlsong for your reply. One of my problems with what happened was that I see this action as you do, I have carried many flags over the years for different reasons. I actually felt quite embarassed and ashamed. I was also very serprized because I had never seen this done at any of the Pow wows I attend out here. I think one of the things that bothered me was none of the others seemed to be concerned about disrespecting the flag carriers and the flags. Thanks again. __________________ ClothDancer02

07-03-2008, 02:11 AM	#9 (permalink)
Barb Dragonfly Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Central Alberta Posts: 128	What I forgot to explain was that every other Grand Entry I have been in the Traditional Ladies dance in until they are even to the flags along the outside of the circle and back up to make sure there is room for the other dancers to pass infront. __________________ ClothDancer02

06-30-2008, 09:20 PM	#2 (permalink)
WocusWoman N8tiffUmatillaMAMA Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Interior Alaska Posts: 2,727	I think I get your question. I believe everyone should keep dancing until everyone has made it into the circle. However, its up to the Arena director to make sure he talks to the dancers in front and let them know where to dance to and where to stop.

07-03-2008, 12:55 AM	#8 (permalink)
Kiwehnzii Oldfart Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 2,868	Grand entry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As a veteran and honor guard (flag carrier) for several years, no one is to pass in front of the head staff and flags, or at least in the pow-wows that I have attended around the Great Lakes. Protocal may be different depending on head vet and location, but I have never seen anyone pass in front of the head staff or flags. I am from the Great Lakes area. Question. How are all the dancers ( I'm talkin' 400 or more) going to get into the arena if they all have to stop? This would create a bottleneck, wouldn't it? I think you & I don't attend the same events.

07-03-2008, 02:13 AM	#10 (permalink)
Barb Dragonfly Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Central Alberta Posts: 128	Forgot to ad I have danced in very small Arbors and rather large arenas sometimes 700-800 dancers and never had a problem. __________________ ClothDancer02

07-03-2008, 07:28 PM	#12 (permalink)
owlsong White tail Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: New Hudson, Michigan Posts: 32	Different teachings Gaa wiin daa-aangoshkigaazo ahaw enaabiyaan gaa-inaabid We have managed to get several hundred people into the arena without a problem and without a bottleneck. The staff carrier(s) and arena director have circled all the dancers sometimes in several loops as not to cross in front of the staff and flags. Others have brought the dancers in sometimes three a time, it depends on the who is carring the staff. My teachings tell me to cross in front of the staff and flags is disrespectful. Because others have different teachings does not make them right or wrong in comparison to others. Only the Kitchi Manitou is perfect. Miigwetch

07-04-2008, 12:43 AM	#13 (permalink)
Kiwehnzii Oldfart Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 2,868	You're right. Nobody is perfect. I must be out of it. All the powwows that I've been to, are how barb described. Traditional ladies stop. All the rest keep going until the end of the song. The AD clears the area in front of the flags and staffs upon completion of grand entry. I don't believe we were being disrespectful. But......... continue as you were and I'll continue as the AD directs us. It's all good as long as we're all content.

07-05-2008, 12:05 AM	#14 (permalink)
owlsong White tail Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: New Hudson, Michigan Posts: 32	Miigwetch Thank you my friend. Perhaps we have or will dance together some day. Until then, baamaapii.

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