Okwataga

No this is not going to hurt -
Just wondering , use to hear about how you carry you shawl, depeneds on your mother, married........
Never could get anyone to tell me something definite
So if anyone out there with the knowledge would care to pass it on please do.

then there's the wrap around your skirt that has fringe, anyone know about it?

inquiring minds want to know
D

paraivo

Deltadawn
I think what you are asking about is an apron, that many Comanche women wear. the men wear something similar when wearing their traditional TU-We clothes and it is called a "peetsquina"(not sure about the spelling). I don't know if the name of the women's apron is the same. The Comanche women's apron can be worn with or without fringe. the Kiowa women also wear a similar apron and I cannot tell you their name for that either. The apron is wrapped aroung the waist and it should end on the left side, oblique-like toward the front. The reason for this is because the belt drop and belt set go on the right side.
As for your shawl question, I have never heard about rules regarding your marital status or parentage affecting which arm you carry your shawl. Most women I see carry it on their left arm because they carry their fan in their right.(easier to fan yourself on those hot days with your right hand)
don't know if this will help, this is just some of my observations--

Okwataga

Interesting, we have all these older experienced dancers for ever women on this board and none of them has anything to say.

I just carry my shawl the way I was shown, and I don't wear the apron at all.
but I have seen these and was just wondering what the story is behind all of it.

So once again ,anyone with the knowledge please inform the rest of us.

BeadedPony

If you look at all the old photos of southern plains women, they usually had a piece of yard goods wrapped around their waists. This was used as an apron would be used while they were cooking, doing chores, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if it was used to swing a few babies to sleep too. That piece of cloth then transferred into their "dress up" clothes and dance regalia using lighter and fancier fabrics. There was a wonderful little Comanche lady who even in her later years (through the '70s) still wore t-dresses and her peetsquina every day.

The peetsquina is now referred to as a wrap, not an apron and in powwow regalia has taken on a fancier style -- fringed or not (this is the wearer's choice), colorful materials, etc. Comanche buckskin outfits are still worn with the wrap. In the old pictures you'll see everything from pieces of plain blankets to the very intricate Hungarian and Czech pieces (Crazy Crow carries some of these types of patterns in scarves and shawl pieces).

As for carrying your shawl...I carry mine on my left arm so my fringes don't get caught in my belt dragger.

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Pony

Okwataga

Thanks beadedpony,
so is the wrap from all over the southwest or just Commanche style?

luvstraightdancrs

Commanche and Kiowa are only ones we see that wear this wrap around.

catsmeow

Can't add much, Beaded Pony explained it all pretty well. I wear mine opening to the left so that doesnt get caught in my dragger as easily, as well as carry my shawl on my left arm, same reason. I have seen these(wraps) done monochromatically and contrasting to the dresses, solids and patterns, so I dont think that there is a set thing that you have to do with it to go with your dress. Comanche and Kiowas are what I have seen wearing this as well.

Mato Winyan

Sorry I was out of state at a powwow. What everyone has said about the wrap is also what I know about it.
About the shawl I had not heard the story before that you said was told to you concering how it should be worn.
I do know now days with all the contesting going on 99.99% of the women will have it over their left arm so the judges can see their number is line up and the dancers are all facing the same way.

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"We see it as a desecration not only of a mountain but of our way of life. This is a genocidal issue to us. If they kill this mountain, they kill our way of life." ~Debra White Plume

Okwataga

Mato glad to hear, was good weekend.
Mato fix and grilled cheese this weekend?

okay nother question, Why do some fold their shawl with the fringe in so the only fringe is at the bottom, and why do some have the fringe out?

Is all this just personal choice, some of the dancers i watch have the applique work on their shawl also and being so big(applique) just with the fringe on the bottom lines up with the ribbon work it looks beautiful!

I fold mine so the fringe is out, i like the feel of it swaying, keeping its time, one of the few times in my life that i feel graceful.
Anyone else?
D

MuzeBl

Good timing on this one. I just got material to make my own Kiowa style cloth outfits.
Thanks

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Instead of telling God how big your storm is, tell your storm how big your God is!

catsmeow

At some contest dances in OK, I have seen what I call a contest shawl, dont know if it really has a correct name. It is smaller than a reg. shawl, about half size and not meant to be worn, just carried. They sometimes run the ribbonwork vertically, so that it shows on most of the shawl when it is carried. They really look nice, and would probably be cooler on the arm as well.

Mato Winyan

cats~

That is what I'm doing with my shawl, making a small version. You have seen how honkin' my other one is there is no way I'm carrying that puppy over this old arm in the heat!!!! :sweat: :Tongue

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"We see it as a desecration not only of a mountain but of our way of life. This is a genocidal issue to us. If they kill this mountain, they kill our way of life." ~Debra White Plume

Mato Winyan

deltadawn
Thanks, it was a great weekend!! Good drums, good dancing, good outfits, good contests!! :)


No way was I cooking this weekend!! This old gal was going to enjoy herself!!
;) :p :Chatter

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"We see it as a desecration not only of a mountain but of our way of life. This is a genocidal issue to us. If they kill this mountain, they kill our way of life." ~Debra White Plume

Okwataga

So you can have a "Contest shawl" just for dancing, and not to use over shoulders? Then that would be less work on making full size shawl and could be way keener and fancier.....
Never thought of that, may have to make some, so this is okaypractice to have seperate shawls?
I ask cause only made full size shawls and used them all day long
D

And yes those contest shawls are darn nice especially witht he fringe same color as ribbonwork tooo cool

goingt o post some pictures today of older pw's from 90 91, see is anyone remembers them.

Beth

Know heavy shawls. I got stupid and made one and put two plus spools of black fringe with four rows of knots. Two rows with plastic firepolish on each knot. I've had people want to make one like it. Usually let them use it once. It usually frives the idea away quickly.

catsmeow

I have seen this type of shawl out in OK the last 2 summers, so would ASSUME that it is acceptable, if not actually correct. They dont wear them, so dont know that anyone would really know the difference. It is actually half the size of a full size one, and fringed only on the bottom, as that is all that shows.
Mato, I have a half shawl given to me by Betty W. about 18 years ago, and it was old then. (could just have been incorrect then too!);) I use it quite a bit, have you ever been able to tell?

STATE

The majority of my shawls are the 3/4 shawl