Name change!

Mato Winyan · 01-11-2002, 05:14 PM

I don't know how many of you noticed but we have undergone a name change here. Our category is no longer called Southern Cloth, but instead we are now called Cloth, and will include both Southern and Northern now.
Since both Northern and Southern dancers will be included here I would for us to get to know each other better and to become more familiar with both styles of dance and regalia.
So any of you that would like to share some of your experiences and knowledge, please feel free. It will be a good learning experience for us all. Thanks! :)

Mato Winyan · 01-12-2002, 01:07 AM

Ok....guess I'll start...
I have been dancing for over 20yrs. now. I have always danced traditional. I have danced Northern until just this past year and have started to dance Southern. The first thing I noticed was the difference in how women did their fans. Northern women would raise their fans on the honor beats while the southern girls would lower their heads and take steps in towards the drum then back out.
The next thing I noticed, were the differences in the breastplates. The longer single one for the Northern and the shorter double for Southern.
These are just a couple of the things I have noticed. Anybody else notice any differences?

Brown wlf · 01-13-2002, 09:00 PM

Well, I dont get to see that many southern cloth dancers up here . (guess I have to broaden my horizons huh?)
But the few I have seen wear high top boots , as opposed to the moc's ith leggings on the northern.

I have a question , are otter wraps more of a southern accessory than northern?

Jill

Beth · 01-13-2002, 09:08 PM

where are you talking? On braids or around the head.
Some Souther cloth do use moccasins. Osage for one but the young girls that dance more than one style seem to like the boots better.

Brown wlf · 01-14-2002, 08:52 PM

Beth ,

I meant otter on the braids.

I really need to get to more of the bigger gatherings, so I can see the beautiful differences in style.

Jill

Beth · 01-14-2002, 08:59 PM

I think that as you go along on this path you will find out it is more a case of what is available. Some girls may have straight dancers in the family. They use otter and may have leftovers.
:p

Mato Winyan · 01-14-2002, 09:23 PM

The ones I've I have seen wear the otter wraps with bead work and otter drops from the braids have been with the fully beaded Northern buckskin dancers. I will look back on the web where I saw some and will post a photo or at least a link.

moose2u · 01-15-2002, 11:15 AM

A lot of northern traditional ladies do wear the otter "drops". They are attached to the braids with hairties, shells, etc. Why? No clue. It's just like the breast plate-I still haven't found out why we wear them or why they are sooooo long. I proably will be dating myself here but when I first started dancing (shaw) we even wore the otter drops with our shaw dance clothes. Anyone remember that?:37:

Mato Winyan · 01-15-2002, 08:40 PM

hehe....yeah you are really ancient....:)

Really I do remember that, I still see someone every once in awhile wearing them. Been wondeing sometimes if they were making a comeback. Only difference I see anymore with them, is they are thinner and have two hanging from one. Like they were cut in half.

Beth · 01-15-2002, 08:55 PM

Keep me on track partner. My mind goes south first. You have to nudge me north. This old dog learns new tricks slowly.:Wave

Mato Winyan · 01-16-2002, 06:04 PM

That's how I feel when I look south!! ;)

Brown wlf · 01-16-2002, 09:46 PM

Hey thanks for all the info!
Guess I'll be putting together some otter drops then. I'm going to use some Purple Quahog shell with them.

Jill

Mato Winyan · 01-17-2002, 12:28 PM

Here is a photo from the Gathering of Nations showing the hairties. These are Northern Traditional dancers. If you notice the top of the dresses some are beaded while the one in the middle is the applique' cloth top.

01-11-2002, 05:14 PM	#1 (permalink)
Mato Winyan Dancing makes you smile Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Indiana Posts: 5,477 Blog Entries: 4	Name change! I don't know how many of you noticed but we have undergone a name change here. Our category is no longer called Southern Cloth, but instead we are now called Cloth, and will include both Southern and Northern now. Since both Northern and Southern dancers will be included here I would for us to get to know each other better and to become more familiar with both styles of dance and regalia. So any of you that would like to share some of your experiences and knowledge, please feel free. It will be a good learning experience for us all. Thanks! :) __________________ "We see it as a desecration not only of a mountain but of our way of life. This is a genocidal issue to us. If they kill this mountain, they kill our way of life." ~Debra White Plume

01-12-2002, 01:07 AM	#2 (permalink)
Mato Winyan Dancing makes you smile Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Indiana Posts: 5,477 Blog Entries: 4	Ok....guess I'll start... I have been dancing for over 20yrs. now. I have always danced traditional. I have danced Northern until just this past year and have started to dance Southern. The first thing I noticed was the difference in how women did their fans. Northern women would raise their fans on the honor beats while the southern girls would lower their heads and take steps in towards the drum then back out. The next thing I noticed, were the differences in the breastplates. The longer single one for the Northern and the shorter double for Southern. These are just a couple of the things I have noticed. Anybody else notice any differences? __________________ "We see it as a desecration not only of a mountain but of our way of life. This is a genocidal issue to us. If they kill this mountain, they kill our way of life." ~Debra White Plume Last edited by Mato Winyan; 01-12-2002 at 01:20 AM.

01-13-2002, 09:08 PM	#4 (permalink)
Beth Beth Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: over the rainbow Posts: 199	otter wraps where are you talking? On braids or around the head. Some Souther cloth do use moccasins. Osage for one but the young girls that dance more than one style seem to like the boots better.

01-14-2002, 08:59 PM	#6 (permalink)
Beth Beth Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: over the rainbow Posts: 199	otter I think that as you go along on this path you will find out it is more a case of what is available. Some girls may have straight dancers in the family. They use otter and may have leftovers. :p

01-14-2002, 09:23 PM	#7 (permalink)
Mato Winyan Dancing makes you smile Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Indiana Posts: 5,477 Blog Entries: 4	The ones I've I have seen wear the otter wraps with bead work and otter drops from the braids have been with the fully beaded Northern buckskin dancers. I will look back on the web where I saw some and will post a photo or at least a link. __________________ "We see it as a desecration not only of a mountain but of our way of life. This is a genocidal issue to us. If they kill this mountain, they kill our way of life." ~Debra White Plume

01-13-2002, 09:00 PM	#3 (permalink)
Brown wlf Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 82	Well, I dont get to see that many southern cloth dancers up here . (guess I have to broaden my horizons huh?) But the few I have seen wear high top boots , as opposed to the moc's ith leggings on the northern. I have a question , are otter wraps more of a southern accessory than northern? Jill

01-14-2002, 08:52 PM	#5 (permalink)
Brown wlf Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 82	Beth , I meant otter on the braids. I really need to get to more of the bigger gatherings, so I can see the beautiful differences in style. Jill

01-15-2002, 11:15 AM	#8 (permalink)
moose2u Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: by a Great Lake Posts: 14	A lot of northern traditional ladies do wear the otter "drops". They are attached to the braids with hairties, shells, etc. Why? No clue. It's just like the breast plate-I still haven't found out why we wear them or why they are sooooo long. I proably will be dating myself here but when I first started dancing (shaw) we even wore the otter drops with our shaw dance clothes. Anyone remember that?:37:

01-15-2002, 08:40 PM	#9 (permalink)
Mato Winyan Dancing makes you smile Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Indiana Posts: 5,477 Blog Entries: 4	hehe....yeah you are really ancient....:) Really I do remember that, I still see someone every once in awhile wearing them. Been wondeing sometimes if they were making a comeback. Only difference I see anymore with them, is they are thinner and have two hanging from one. Like they were cut in half. __________________ "We see it as a desecration not only of a mountain but of our way of life. This is a genocidal issue to us. If they kill this mountain, they kill our way of life." ~Debra White Plume

01-15-2002, 08:55 PM	#10 (permalink)
Beth Beth Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: over the rainbow Posts: 199	ties Keep me on track partner. My mind goes south first. You have to nudge me north. This old dog learns new tricks slowly.:Wave

01-16-2002, 06:04 PM	#11 (permalink)
Mato Winyan Dancing makes you smile Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Indiana Posts: 5,477 Blog Entries: 4	That's how I feel when I look south!! ;) __________________ "We see it as a desecration not only of a mountain but of our way of life. This is a genocidal issue to us. If they kill this mountain, they kill our way of life." ~Debra White Plume

01-16-2002, 09:46 PM	#12 (permalink)
Brown wlf Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 82	Hey thanks for all the info! Guess I'll be putting together some otter drops then. I'm going to use some Purple Quahog shell with them. Jill

01-17-2002, 01:21 PM	#14 (permalink)
Miss_Nish PowWows.com Addicts Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Anishnabe Akii Posts: 1,022