turtle shell purse

Sheila · 10-13-2003, 12:39 PM

Hi all:

At the pow wows I've been to, I have seen some ladies wearing the Cherokee dress with a purse made from a turtle shell. I was planning to make myself a turtle shell purse to go with my Cherokee dress, but a friend of mine told me that the turtle purse is very modern and to find out more about it before I made one for myself. Although this friend is very knowledgable, he is a man and I thought a question about ladies wear would be best answered by ladies. So, please tell me about the purse made from a turtle shell, is it proper to have with a cherokee dress at a pow wow or would that be a no no?

Sheila

Tara · 10-13-2003, 06:39 PM

Not that turtle shells and shell shakers with the Cherokee havent been around for ever, but I'd have to agree with your friend that the leather lined turtle shell purses with the fringe are a pretty modern thing.

Tara

Awahili · 10-13-2003, 08:03 PM

Why don't you ask MenNie Turtles? Her friend Sheila decorates her belt with turtles, and has a turtle shell purse. I know I used to have a small medicine bag with a turtle many years ago, but in moving it got lost. Guess it decided to go home.

Okwataga · 10-14-2003, 09:21 AM

ask your self first - why you want and think you need one with a cherokee dress?

two - think of where you are dancing? are you going into comp. or just dancing intertribals?

three - most cherokee women i know, dont' use it for dancing, some have one yes, but for everyday use.

Nothing wrong with a turtle shell purse,but ask why?

Sheila · 10-14-2003, 10:11 AM

<>

I want one because they are pretty, I like turtles and I need a purse of some sort to carry my money, drivers license and raffle tickets in. The purse I use with my Southern Cloth outfit does not go with Cherokee.

<>

Only dance intertribals where everyone is welcome.

<>

I'm not Cherokee even though I am from NC. Since I am making an outfit from someone else's culture I just want to make sure I don't do anything wrong or offensive to the true owners of the outfit.

Okwataga · 10-15-2003, 12:01 PM

so are you going to make one or not? you stated you just want one, so.....

it's your choice, and your stuff, why ask us?

Sheila · 10-15-2003, 01:13 PM

<
it's your choice, and your stuff, why ask us?>>

I don't know yet. I think that I will wait until I know more. Yes I want one, but at 48 yrs old, I have learned to live without things that I want.

Okwataga · 10-15-2003, 01:49 PM

well being you are not cherokee,
why not carry your own tribal design type bag?

Sheila · 10-16-2003, 09:48 AM

I don't have a 'tribe'. I am not an Indian. My ancesters are Irish, Scottish, English and Welsh. That is why I am trying to be so careful and particular to only have the right things with my dance outfits when I make one.

I was told that is was proper to ask permission before making the outfit of a tribe that one does not belong to, so I did ask permission from a Cherokee lady before making my cherokee dress and mocs and I also ask permission from a Comanche lady before making an outfit in that style.

BIG CHEEKS · 10-20-2003, 12:18 AM

....were what you want to...

:) if they are made well the turtle purses look great....

**eucheefolife** · 01-24-2004, 06:58 PM

my self being cherokee and creek and euchee i stompdance and it is new and not traditional i think if ur gonna do it make it from a box turtle or any land turtle not a water turtle were not suppose to mess with water turtle for reasons that are unknown to me but i ve just been told not to so i dont anyways i say go ahead and make it :)

quapawgirl · 07-13-2005, 04:12 PM

i've never seen a turtle purse i appreciate that you always ask a tribal member before you make yur dresses. All cherokees i seen use a basket for a purse but above and beyond always go by your heart and do as it says. If you ask me i think ther are alot cherokees that are not carded or recongnized by tribal affilation but now buy ther heart that they are. If you do please use land turtles and find an elder to help you with killing and cleaning the turtle. I'm a stompdancer go to many different grounds been brought to appreciate a turtles life as we wear them on our legs. if turtles not been treated right they say they can cause us harm like leg cramps. Most people do not realize when they make things our of live creatures they make them immortal.

paintedsun22 · 09-23-2005, 07:13 PM

I want to thank you for asking permission before you made your dress, but it would be more proper if it had been given to you. I dance in my Tear dress with a turtle shell purse. I haven't heard of wearing one being wrong, and haven't been corrected yet if it is. Mine is made from a water turtle, I never heard of that being bad. However, respect is due because the shell is from a once-living creature and should be taken care of to show that animal respect and your thanks for the use of his shell. I don't think it would be a problem, but your friend is right, it is a modern thing.

JimGrayOwl · 09-26-2005, 01:14 AM

If your going to be around a Cherokee traditional setting, you probably want to use a land turtle. The thing about the water turtle has to do with stomp dancing and the sacred fire. You should do your own research on this, that "search for the answer thing!" Find a traditional female and ask her about the turtle shell. As far as I know, it really won't have much to do with pow-wowing. It has more to with cerimonial type of things. But, it is woman's business to explain. Good luck.

10-13-2003, 12:39 PM	#1 (permalink)
Sheila Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: May 2000 Location: Mooresville, NC USA Posts: 42	turtle shell purse Hi all: At the pow wows I've been to, I have seen some ladies wearing the Cherokee dress with a purse made from a turtle shell. I was planning to make myself a turtle shell purse to go with my Cherokee dress, but a friend of mine told me that the turtle purse is very modern and to find out more about it before I made one for myself. Although this friend is very knowledgable, he is a man and I thought a question about ladies wear would be best answered by ladies. So, please tell me about the purse made from a turtle shell, is it proper to have with a cherokee dress at a pow wow or would that be a no no? Sheila __________________ Sheila

10-13-2003, 08:03 PM	#3 (permalink)
Awahili Retired Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Indian Hills KY Posts: 29	Why don't you ask MenNie Turtles? Her friend Sheila decorates her belt with turtles, and has a turtle shell purse. I know I used to have a small medicine bag with a turtle many years ago, but in moving it got lost. Guess it decided to go home. __________________ I am who I have always been. If you don't like that then you have my permission to leave. Yes I am enrolled, and your point is?

10-14-2003, 09:21 AM	#4 (permalink)
Okwataga Senior Dancer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: cherokee Posts: 952	ask your self first - why you want and think you need one with a cherokee dress? two - think of where you are dancing? are you going into comp. or just dancing intertribals? three - most cherokee women i know, dont' use it for dancing, some have one yes, but for everyday use. Nothing wrong with a turtle shell purse,but ask why? __________________ In life there are few things that are certain... me being sarcastic is one of them

10-14-2003, 10:11 AM	#5 (permalink)
Sheila Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: May 2000 Location: Mooresville, NC USA Posts: 42	<> I want one because they are pretty, I like turtles and I need a purse of some sort to carry my money, drivers license and raffle tickets in. The purse I use with my Southern Cloth outfit does not go with Cherokee. <> Only dance intertribals where everyone is welcome. <> I'm not Cherokee even though I am from NC. Since I am making an outfit from someone else's culture I just want to make sure I don't do anything wrong or offensive to the true owners of the outfit. __________________ Sheila

10-15-2003, 12:01 PM	#6 (permalink)
Okwataga Senior Dancer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: cherokee Posts: 952	so are you going to make one or not? you stated you just want one, so..... it's your choice, and your stuff, why ask us? __________________ In life there are few things that are certain... me being sarcastic is one of them

10-13-2003, 06:39 PM	#2 (permalink)
Tara Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: northeast Posts: 65	Not that turtle shells and shell shakers with the Cherokee havent been around for ever, but I'd have to agree with your friend that the leather lined turtle shell purses with the fringe are a pretty modern thing. Tara

10-15-2003, 01:13 PM	#7 (permalink)
Sheila Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: May 2000 Location: Mooresville, NC USA Posts: 42	< it's your choice, and your stuff, why ask us?>> I don't know yet. I think that I will wait until I know more. Yes I want one, but at 48 yrs old, I have learned to live without things that I want. __________________ Sheila

10-15-2003, 01:49 PM	#8 (permalink)
Okwataga Senior Dancer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: cherokee Posts: 952	well being you are not cherokee, why not carry your own tribal design type bag? __________________ In life there are few things that are certain... me being sarcastic is one of them

10-16-2003, 09:48 AM	#9 (permalink)
Sheila Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: May 2000 Location: Mooresville, NC USA Posts: 42	I don't have a 'tribe'. I am not an Indian. My ancesters are Irish, Scottish, English and Welsh. That is why I am trying to be so careful and particular to only have the right things with my dance outfits when I make one. I was told that is was proper to ask permission before making the outfit of a tribe that one does not belong to, so I did ask permission from a Cherokee lady before making my cherokee dress and mocs and I also ask permission from a Comanche lady before making an outfit in that style. __________________ Sheila

10-20-2003, 12:18 AM	#10 (permalink)
BIG CHEEKS Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: NORTH CAROLINA Posts: 25	....were what you want to... :) if they are made well the turtle purses look great....

01-24-2004, 06:58 PM	#11 (permalink)
eucheefolife +++da 1 n only+++ Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: oklahoma Posts: 1,254	my self being cherokee and creek and euchee i stompdance and it is new and not traditional i think if ur gonna do it make it from a box turtle or any land turtle not a water turtle were not suppose to mess with water turtle for reasons that are unknown to me but i ve just been told not to so i dont anyways i say go ahead and make it :) __________________ You got me lifted shifted higher than a ceiling And ooh wee it's the ultimate feeling You got me lifted feeling so gifted Sugar how you get so fly?¿? **Mary had a little lamb but grandma butchered it**

07-13-2005, 04:12 PM	#12 (permalink)
quapawgirl Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 29	i've never seen a turtle purse i appreciate that you always ask a tribal member before you make yur dresses. All cherokees i seen use a basket for a purse but above and beyond always go by your heart and do as it says. If you ask me i think ther are alot cherokees that are not carded or recongnized by tribal affilation but now buy ther heart that they are. If you do please use land turtles and find an elder to help you with killing and cleaning the turtle. I'm a stompdancer go to many different grounds been brought to appreciate a turtles life as we wear them on our legs. if turtles not been treated right they say they can cause us harm like leg cramps. Most people do not realize when they make things our of live creatures they make them immortal.

09-23-2005, 07:13 PM	#13 (permalink)
paintedsun22 Dancer 4 Life!! Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: If you find me, keep me here until I get back. Posts: 202	I want to thank you for asking permission before you made your dress, but it would be more proper if it had been given to you. I dance in my Tear dress with a turtle shell purse. I haven't heard of wearing one being wrong, and haven't been corrected yet if it is. Mine is made from a water turtle, I never heard of that being bad. However, respect is due because the shell is from a once-living creature and should be taken care of to show that animal respect and your thanks for the use of his shell. I don't think it would be a problem, but your friend is right, it is a modern thing.

09-26-2005, 01:14 AM	#14 (permalink)
JimGrayOwl Gourd Dancer Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 62	Use a land turtle if your going to be around Cherokee If your going to be around a Cherokee traditional setting, you probably want to use a land turtle. The thing about the water turtle has to do with stomp dancing and the sacred fire. You should do your own research on this, that "search for the answer thing!" Find a traditional female and ask her about the turtle shell. As far as I know, it really won't have much to do with pow-wowing. It has more to with cerimonial type of things. But, it is woman's business to explain. Good luck.

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