Fahrenheit 9/11

**50cal** · 06-28-2004, 02:39 AM

Who has seen this??? I'm not sure I want to watch this...even though our President did commit some wrong, he shouldn't have to be portrayed in this matter.....I mean, like it or not, he's still our President.....I guess I harbor loyalty because I am a Marine....but part of me, hidden, still would like to layeth the Smackdown!!!! LOL......

oh and another thing, terrorists can use this to their advantage......one of their methods of warfare is the media...as I'm sure you've all seen the beheadings and now a Marine, one of my brothers, is being held hostage and will possibly be decapitated.....this affects our lives and that's how they operate....anything to disrupt the thinking of the populace...to create disorder, which I believe is happening now....they know the country is divided about the war in Iraq, so they're going to use every means necessary to exploit that......and personally michael moore just provided them more ammo.......

Privateer6 · 06-28-2004, 10:18 AM

I have not seen the movie yet. However from "Bowling for Columbine," I know that he's mastered the art of spin, and I am very skeptica of his veracity.l Thoughout the Columbine movie, he has cut and pasted images, interviews, speeches, staged "interviews", ad nauseum together to support his goals. If any history student was to do any of the things he has done, he would fail. Any respectable scholar would most likely lose their position. The prof who created "evidence" to support his argument that firearms were NOT important to American culture prior to the Civil War is one example of the defrocking that would take place if someone did as Moore has done.

From the one commercial I've seen, the one condemning Bush for going on vacation, I don't believe Moore understands reality. Unlike most people who go on vacation and do not allow work to follow them, Bush and other cabinet leaders do not have that pleasure. If the govenment can send three satelite communications vans, armed security, etc for a CIA director to go on a weekend father and son camping trip, know they are going to send a whole lot more to the president's ranch. After all Camp David, the presidential retreat, is fully eqipped as a secondary white house. And let's not forget the equipment aboard Air Force One ( or it's backup/ vice-presidential Air Force Two), making it a flying situation room.

As for Moore and the media providing fuel to the insurrgents fire, that is an understatement. The terrorists know, especially after Madrid, that to influence public opinion in a democracy, they need to instill as much terror as possible to as many people as possible. The easiest method is to use the media: print, television, and especially internet. The reporting from Khe Song during the Vietnam War is an example of how the media's influence over people. A Lt.Col. at Khe Song complained that the media, in their comparison to Dien Bein Phu (sp), always used as their backdrop a plane that was hit on the first day of the siege. Throughout their reporting, this plane was seen and the Marine's wife said that that image made it worse for her knowing that planes were being destroyed daily when they weren't.

Ok I ranted enough.

Paul G · 06-28-2004, 10:33 AM

Moore might go over the line some in his two movies, but....

In all the history and political science classes I took in college and graduate school, the professors always had a slant to thier lectures. And they used certain pieces of history to help thier arguement. Some did it to try and get a rise out of students, some did it to match thier philosphy.

But I don't think you can argue that historians don't slant things their way.

Statistics was invented to help support someone's cause.

And history is always written by the winner.

Regardless of whether you agree with the conculsions Moore presents, I appreciate him raising the questions.

Privateer6 · 06-28-2004, 10:48 AM

Using bits and pieces is one thing, but editing passages from speeches, fabricating interviews, taking information out of context to support your argument is another. While I am extremly grateful to live in a country with freedom of the press and believe it is one of our greatest strengths, as stated by communists in the 20th. century it is also our greatest weakness. Yes their is always an agenda, but when you create your supports,that is a problem.

Again I have not seen 9/11 yet, I plan on seeing it after Spidey 2. However after "Columbine" I am very skeptical of Moore's work.

**Jibby™** · 06-28-2004, 11:37 AM

So it's ok for the leader fo the country to cut and paste to accomodate his agenda? Oh please.

I applaud Michael Moore for "going there" n having the gonads to expose the hypocracies.

I'll say it once and I'll say it again - G Dubbz is a publicly funded terrorist. It's only right that his facist a$$ is called out.

**billyjoejimbob** · 06-28-2004, 12:12 PM

Loyalty?

The guy LOST the election! He shouldnt even be president!

Have you been around the past few years.

GW is gonna run this country into the ground. But he will make money on the deal. Any decision he makes will be for HIS OWN profit.

He is a waste and because of him we are a perfect target.

Sayonara everyone.

**CandaePrincess** · 06-28-2004, 12:31 PM

Woohoo JIBBS!!! I agree that the Bush agenda is for no one but himself. I also love Michael Moore. People bash political figures all the time. The GOP tore Clinton up over the Lewinsky "scandal" which was totally ignorant using OUR tax money over a moral issue that numerous presidents before had done. They just didn't get caught or have whiney baby congressmen trying to get them out of office on ANYTHING they could find.
I would much rather have my President do something stupid like having an affair. At least he's not making a mockery of our relations with other countries. It is scary to know we have NO backing from anyone anymore.
This movie isn't a bunch of lies. People have a hard time accepting the truth. Just as bowling for Columbine was truth. The truth hurts when it's not sugar coated. It's a bitter pill at times to swallow and people will tear down someone to keep from having to admit they're wrong. 9/11 is truth, and when people accept it, then maybe we as a country can figure out what needs to be done to get back on the right path with our former allies and other countries as well.

**50cal** · 06-28-2004, 12:52 PM

Like I said, Like it or not....He's still our president....Understandably I can see how everyone feels about some of the policies he's done, but don't you find it hypocritical when he does something good and everyone is like "yeah, way to go, I support my president.." then to turn around when something happens we don't like and say stuff like "get him out, impeach the president" or stage all these protests....

Yeah I have my reservations about things, but not once after 9/11 when he decided to go after terrorists did my support waver.....Yes, it should have been done long ago, with the many bombings and terrorists threats, but at least he's doing something now.....Yeah, he screwed up with the invasion of Iraq by not getting all essential information prior to March 21, 2003....yes, he should have garnered for more support from the U.N., but would have anything been accomplished??? If you really think about it, Iraq is now a better country than just 2 years ago.....yes, there are bombings still going on and hostage taking, the killing of innocent civilians....but have you seen the other side??? Have you seen the progress that has been done??? Have you seen the new schools, the new police stations (even though they get blown up on a daily basis), the humanitarian efforts that are going on in different parts of the country???? Do you actually think Fallujah is just a hotbed of unrest??? It's not, there is actually more being done everyday to better the lives of these people...Yes, you may say what about our lives??? We have needs too, yes we do, but look at them, these people need it more.....the majority of us have so much that we do not realize it, imagine if our situations were reversed.....I know the media took polls on our popularity there, but did they ask the entire country?? No, they didn't....believe it or not, but they do want us there...don't believe everything you hear on the news, look on the other hand....just my opinions.......

**50cal** · 06-28-2004, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CandaePrincess

It is scary to know we have NO backing from anyone anymore.
This movie isn't a bunch of lies. People have a hard time accepting the truth. Just as bowling for Columbine was truth. The truth hurts when it's not sugar coated. It's a bitter pill at times to swallow and people will tear down someone to keep from having to admit they're wrong. 9/11 is truth, and when people accept it, then maybe we as a country can figure out what needs to be done to get back on the right path with our former allies and other countries as well.

Uhhh, yeah, we still got backing from other countries 17 out 26 countries (NATO) backed us and deployed there troops....and now we have the "official" backing of the U.N., they just waited for the dirty work to be done......I reallt don't hink anyone said this movie was a bunch of lies, I haven't seen it, so I don't know.....and for the President using that to back his personal agenda.....don't people in general do that anyway???....think of themselves????.....no argument from me, just my opinions....

Homalosa · 06-28-2004, 02:42 PM

My husband saw it and said it was amazing. He added that even if Moore put a spin on it, no one can refute the beast that was Florida.......

**50cal** · 06-28-2004, 02:52 PM

True......Florida was a beast......

**Jibby™** · 06-28-2004, 03:23 PM

[quote=GJJudd]While I am extremly grateful to live in a country with freedom of the press QUOTE]

Freedom of the Press?!?! Wake up! It's TELL-A-VISION - you are told what they want you to see. Michael Moore's work is revolutionary in the fact that he brings it to you raw! He tells it how it REALLY is .. not the garbage that we are fed by means of Western propaganda.

This movie will not inspire more terrorism - your president will.

Singing Eagle · 06-28-2004, 03:36 PM

[quote=Jibby™]

Quote:

06-28-2004, 02:39 AM	#1 (permalink)
50cal Natural Born Killer...... Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: In a socialist state..... Posts: 7,133	Fahrenheit 9/11 Who has seen this??? I'm not sure I want to watch this...even though our President did commit some wrong, he shouldn't have to be portrayed in this matter.....I mean, like it or not, he's still our President.....I guess I harbor loyalty because I am a Marine....but part of me, hidden, still would like to layeth the Smackdown!!!! LOL...... oh and another thing, terrorists can use this to their advantage......one of their methods of warfare is the media...as I'm sure you've all seen the beheadings and now a Marine, one of my brothers, is being held hostage and will possibly be decapitated.....this affects our lives and that's how they operate....anything to disrupt the thinking of the populace...to create disorder, which I believe is happening now....they know the country is divided about the war in Iraq, so they're going to use every means necessary to exploit that......and personally michael moore just provided them more ammo....... __________________ "Sweat dries, blood clots, bones heal. Suck it up. Be a Marine"

06-28-2004, 10:33 AM	#3 (permalink)
Paul G Webmaster Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Lexington, SC Posts: 14,215 Blog Entries: 1	Moore might go over the line some in his two movies, but.... In all the history and political science classes I took in college and graduate school, the professors always had a slant to thier lectures. And they used certain pieces of history to help thier arguement. Some did it to try and get a rise out of students, some did it to match thier philosphy. But I don't think you can argue that historians don't slant things their way. Statistics was invented to help support someone's cause. And history is always written by the winner. Regardless of whether you agree with the conculsions Moore presents, I appreciate him raising the questions. __________________ New to the site--Introduce Yourself Need Help--FAQ--Search Feedback--Post your suggestions MyTribalSpace.com \| NativeGatherings.com \| PowWows.com Podcast \| Indigitunes.com NativeSeek.com \| Pow Wow TV \| Pow Wow Radio \| NativeMusicSource.com Radio \| NDN411.com \| eSnag Online Dating Pow Wow TV - Find out how you could win a 42" Plasma TV!

06-28-2004, 10:48 AM	#4 (permalink)
Privateer6 Like my new toy? Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Cylon occupied North Carolina Posts: 775	Using bits and pieces is one thing, but editing passages from speeches, fabricating interviews, taking information out of context to support your argument is another. While I am extremly grateful to live in a country with freedom of the press and believe it is one of our greatest strengths, as stated by communists in the 20th. century it is also our greatest weakness. Yes their is always an agenda, but when you create your supports,that is a problem. Again I have not seen 9/11 yet, I plan on seeing it after Spidey 2. However after "Columbine" I am very skeptical of Moore's work. Last edited by GJJudd; 06-28-2004 at 10:50 AM.

06-28-2004, 11:37 AM	#5 (permalink)
Jibby™ NDNBUNZ Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: BABYLON HATE MACHINE Posts: 2,094	Ignorance Is A Voluntary Misfortune... So it's ok for the leader fo the country to cut and paste to accomodate his agenda? Oh please. I applaud Michael Moore for "going there" n having the gonads to expose the hypocracies. I'll say it once and I'll say it again - G Dubbz is a publicly funded terrorist. It's only right that his facist a$$ is called out.

06-28-2004, 12:31 PM	#7 (permalink)
CandaePrincess Go Tera Go!!!! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: where it's at Posts: 9,241	Woohoo JIBBS!!! I agree that the Bush agenda is for no one but himself. I also love Michael Moore. People bash political figures all the time. The GOP tore Clinton up over the Lewinsky "scandal" which was totally ignorant using OUR tax money over a moral issue that numerous presidents before had done. They just didn't get caught or have whiney baby congressmen trying to get them out of office on ANYTHING they could find. I would much rather have my President do something stupid like having an affair. At least he's not making a mockery of our relations with other countries. It is scary to know we have NO backing from anyone anymore. This movie isn't a bunch of lies. People have a hard time accepting the truth. Just as bowling for Columbine was truth. The truth hurts when it's not sugar coated. It's a bitter pill at times to swallow and people will tear down someone to keep from having to admit they're wrong. 9/11 is truth, and when people accept it, then maybe we as a country can figure out what needs to be done to get back on the right path with our former allies and other countries as well. __________________ Mussy by birth.....Native by the Grace of God.......

06-28-2004, 10:18 AM	#2 (permalink)
Privateer6 Like my new toy? Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Cylon occupied North Carolina Posts: 775	I have not seen the movie yet. However from "Bowling for Columbine," I know that he's mastered the art of spin, and I am very skeptica of his veracity.l Thoughout the Columbine movie, he has cut and pasted images, interviews, speeches, staged "interviews", ad nauseum together to support his goals. If any history student was to do any of the things he has done, he would fail. Any respectable scholar would most likely lose their position. The prof who created "evidence" to support his argument that firearms were NOT important to American culture prior to the Civil War is one example of the defrocking that would take place if someone did as Moore has done. From the one commercial I've seen, the one condemning Bush for going on vacation, I don't believe Moore understands reality. Unlike most people who go on vacation and do not allow work to follow them, Bush and other cabinet leaders do not have that pleasure. If the govenment can send three satelite communications vans, armed security, etc for a CIA director to go on a weekend father and son camping trip, know they are going to send a whole lot more to the president's ranch. After all Camp David, the presidential retreat, is fully eqipped as a secondary white house. And let's not forget the equipment aboard Air Force One ( or it's backup/ vice-presidential Air Force Two), making it a flying situation room. As for Moore and the media providing fuel to the insurrgents fire, that is an understatement. The terrorists know, especially after Madrid, that to influence public opinion in a democracy, they need to instill as much terror as possible to as many people as possible. The easiest method is to use the media: print, television, and especially internet. The reporting from Khe Song during the Vietnam War is an example of how the media's influence over people. A Lt.Col. at Khe Song complained that the media, in their comparison to Dien Bein Phu (sp), always used as their backdrop a plane that was hit on the first day of the siege. Throughout their reporting, this plane was seen and the Marine's wife said that that image made it worse for her knowing that planes were being destroyed daily when they weren't. Ok I ranted enough.

06-28-2004, 12:12 PM	#6 (permalink)
billyjoejimbob Fat Singer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: white guy land Posts: 1,525	Loyalty? The guy LOST the election! He shouldnt even be president! Have you been around the past few years. GW is gonna run this country into the ground. But he will make money on the deal. Any decision he makes will be for HIS OWN profit. He is a waste and because of him we are a perfect target. Sayonara everyone.

06-28-2004, 12:52 PM	#8 (permalink)
50cal Natural Born Killer...... Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: In a socialist state..... Posts: 7,133	Like I said, Like it or not....He's still our president....Understandably I can see how everyone feels about some of the policies he's done, but don't you find it hypocritical when he does something good and everyone is like "yeah, way to go, I support my president.." then to turn around when something happens we don't like and say stuff like "get him out, impeach the president" or stage all these protests.... Yeah I have my reservations about things, but not once after 9/11 when he decided to go after terrorists did my support waver.....Yes, it should have been done long ago, with the many bombings and terrorists threats, but at least he's doing something now.....Yeah, he screwed up with the invasion of Iraq by not getting all essential information prior to March 21, 2003....yes, he should have garnered for more support from the U.N., but would have anything been accomplished??? If you really think about it, Iraq is now a better country than just 2 years ago.....yes, there are bombings still going on and hostage taking, the killing of innocent civilians....but have you seen the other side??? Have you seen the progress that has been done??? Have you seen the new schools, the new police stations (even though they get blown up on a daily basis), the humanitarian efforts that are going on in different parts of the country???? Do you actually think Fallujah is just a hotbed of unrest??? It's not, there is actually more being done everyday to better the lives of these people...Yes, you may say what about our lives??? We have needs too, yes we do, but look at them, these people need it more.....the majority of us have so much that we do not realize it, imagine if our situations were reversed.....I know the media took polls on our popularity there, but did they ask the entire country?? No, they didn't....believe it or not, but they do want us there...don't believe everything you hear on the news, look on the other hand....just my opinions....... __________________ "Sweat dries, blood clots, bones heal. Suck it up. Be a Marine"

06-28-2004, 02:42 PM	#10 (permalink)
Homalosa Choc-lack-chick! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Dallas, Texas (where da powwows at?) Posts: 1,586	My husband saw it and said it was amazing. He added that even if Moore put a spin on it, no one can refute the beast that was Florida....... __________________ Honor and respect your elders! "Until the lion learns to speak the tales of hunting will always favor the hunter." -K'Naan O-BAM-UH!!!! www.myspace.com/thobackmuzik www.myspace.com/asanicharles

06-28-2004, 02:52 PM	#11 (permalink)
50cal Natural Born Killer...... Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: In a socialist state..... Posts: 7,133	True......Florida was a beast...... __________________ "Sweat dries, blood clots, bones heal. Suck it up. Be a Marine"

06-28-2004, 03:23 PM	#12 (permalink)
Jibby™ NDNBUNZ Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: BABYLON HATE MACHINE Posts: 2,094	[quote=GJJudd]While I am extremly grateful to live in a country with freedom of the press QUOTE] Freedom of the Press?!?! Wake up! It's TELL-A-VISION - you are told what they want you to see. Michael Moore's work is revolutionary in the fact that he brings it to you raw! He tells it how it REALLY is .. not the garbage that we are fed by means of Western propaganda. This movie will not inspire more terrorism - your president will. Last edited by Jibby™; 06-28-2004 at 03:25 PM.

06-28-2004, 03:36 PM	#13 (permalink)
Singing Eagle An URBAN NDN Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Canada eh! Posts: 2,457	[quote=Jibby™] Quote: