To drink........or not to drink............

lsijohn · 05-07-2002, 12:02 PM

Is it acceptable to drink or drug while you are actively participating in the powwow way of life?

Where I am from.........you choose one way of life or the other.

If you choose to drink or drug while you are participating in the powwows, you will have bad luck. Bad luck meaning you won't be able to gather yourself, maybe drop feathers, etc.

I am curious about your thoughts.

One of the reasons I ask is because of a reply I read in the "fringe help" thread. Buckskin Lady talks about having a few drinks (granted that it was her birthday), then working on a dress after she's had her drinks, so that someone could take the dress to a powwow.

nativegal · 05-07-2002, 01:10 PM

Personally I don't think it's right to dance or enter the circle while under the influence of ANYTHING!!!! Not even going to a powwow after being under the influence. Just my opinion. I was taught that the circle is sacred and you should not do that. And that you shouldn't go to a powwow under the influence out of respect for yourself and others.

Powwowtrail17 · 05-07-2002, 02:29 PM

Myself I think it is a matter of respect.
When you join the powwow circle and put on regalia or sing at a drum you need to respect it.
If you drink or do drugs you are disrespectin' yourself, regalia, outfit...especially the feathers.

My point is that "no" I don't think that the two should ever be mixed, I think its just disrespectful.

ndn b-ball babe · 05-07-2002, 03:19 PM

TRUE...TRUE...TRUE!! I totally agree it is totally wrong to INDULDGE in those kinds of activities and then do traditional things.

Kind of lame to hear Redfringe getting bashed for using a sewing machine to tack her fringe on her dress down.......YOU ALL KNOW WHO YOU WERE........then in the same breath laugh around about "having a few drinks" to relax or celebrate or WHATEVER.........sad man......real sad............

Using Buckskin Lady's statemet........."Thats looked down upon around here!!!!!"

buckskinlady · 05-07-2002, 03:39 PM

I absolutely do not condone drinking or drugging anywhere around a pow-wow and definitely not if you are going to participate. The two definitely do not go together at all.
What I do in my own home is my own business and I can see that some of you are not mature enough to know that drinking in moderation in the privacy of your own home does not make you a fall down drunk. That was just a one-time incident that I thought was funny, but obviously, it was not taken that way. And I believe I said to definitely NOT do what I did!
I'm lucky and I'm grateful to God that I do not have an alcohol problem...but I have many friends and too many relatives who do and it affects me every day of my life. I pray for them all the time and pray for the patience and tolerance to live with them.
By the way I pray before I cut any hide and there are in no way any bad vibes going on while I HAND SEW my dresses.
If redfringe and ndn b-ball babe have a problem with me about the sewing machine comments(and you obviosly do) or about anything else.. why don't you PM me or email!!! These posts are to help each other out...and most people don't want to read negative stuff here!! But if you want to deal with me privately....Let's go!!!!

ndn b-ball babe · 05-07-2002, 03:45 PM

Knowing that it will be MY TURN to get bashed by my fellow skins........here is the acutal statement I was talking about............", but around here, anything machine made is just looked down upon. to say it the way the elders love to put it, "It's just not done Thats the way it is."":D

ndn b-ball babe · 05-07-2002, 03:55 PM

YEAH YEAH YEAH...............BLAH BLAH BLAH..............How come if I comment on "comments" or give "just my opinion" like everyone else it is "BS"?!? Who was the one who started the negative comments inregards to "how it SHOULD be done"....................WOW, so much for the ol'1st Amendment......................Geese, I would rather be known for speaking up and giving "my opinion" or "immaturity"than the be known as a hypecrite, and the "cutting down" of other skins!!!!!!

Don't we have enough pressing issues to deal with and gov't and non-Indian views holding us down?!?!?! Never thought I would see the day skin vs skin.......I'm better that you.....I'm more traditional than you.............WOW. :(

I don't have to "pm" anyone....I said what I said....I mean what I mean.......deal with it!:Yell

buckskinlady · 05-07-2002, 03:55 PM

Yes, that is exactly what I said...and what can I say?
That IS the way it is... I learned from a lot of older ladies and that's how they are!!! That's what I was taught and I've got to stick with it!!!
By the way, I will never mention alcohol again here. It was probably insensitive and there is probably a serious discussion board where people can talk about this huge problem...but like I said..I live with it everyday, all around me but I don't hardly ever even socially drink and that's why (if someone knew me) that story was so funny! Never mind! It's getting worse!!

lsijohn · 05-07-2002, 05:11 PM

Lets go, buckskin lady!!!!!

You know, construction of an outfit wasn't actually what really bothered me about the "fringe help" thread.

The way you construct things and the way I construct things don't really matter. You have your ways, and I have mine. We come to the boards to get help and information, and advice. You hand sew........I don't. Does that make you better? Or more native? Or more traditional?

What bothered me is to see your post mentioning the fact that you consume ALCOHOL before/while you are constructing a dress. I agree with the other ladies who posted on this topic, it is DISRESPECTFUL!

I don't know you. Do you expect that everyone who posts to this board should "know you"?

You are a moderator on this board. Use some common sense when you are posting messages to this board.

That's all I have to say about that..............

05-08-2002, 10:28 AM

Personal opinion is what is being asked here. No, it is not correct to use any form of substance while dancing or even being in the arena. It is sad, but alot of our dancers and singers do use substances and then participate.
As for working on an outfit while drinking, that is a personal decision, though I would not want someone working on my stuff unless they had a clear mind and heart. What frame of mind that you are in while working on a regalia is very important. These dresses and beadwork are prayed over and smudged because to most they are something special and usually will be handed down to daughters and granddaughters. My folks always said not work on your stuff, or anyone elses, if you don't feel right or are angry at someone or any kind of negativity in your heart or spirit. Because it will be transferred, especially hides and feathers since those came from our brothers who gave up life for us to use them.
I think,perhaps, things got blown out of proportion and got out of hand. Whether you use a machine or not, it is your dress and your love and work goes into it, it will be just fine.

Powwowtrail17 · 05-08-2002, 02:28 PM

Yep...Im with STATE. "ditto"
I just wanna say to buckskin lady that your outfits are very beautiful I checked out your work the other day and I really really like it.
I even wanted to know how much you charge to just sew it, but in my opinion I would not like someone working on my regalia while they are drinking....I know you probably don't work on everyone's outfit while under the influence, I would just expect that if I were to get you to fix a woman's traditional outfit for me that you would not go near alcohol while you did it.
I don't know if I"m being understood correctly or what but I hope I am somewhat
:)

05-09-2002, 05:35 PM

Geez, that bickering reminds me of old ladies:p

Please keep that between you and so and so. As for the work of BucksinLady, I would almost sell my soul to the devil to have a dress that looks like that:D Cream of the crop and top quality! My hat is off to you!

As for the drinking and drugs,while doing traditonal things?Hmmm Come to think of it, drinking and using drugs where never traditonal, it was just introduced by them white ****ers!

I belive that if you are dancing, and doing the best that you can to live a traditiona lifestyle, no drugs, no booze!
It any other words, it's bad! I try to live a good life, and drugs and booze is NOT a part of it. If you are doing that, then you are messing things up not only for yourself, but for others.

I make this statement, in belief that we have our own opinions!

05-09-2002, 05:38 PM

I also agree what you do in your house, is your own business! BUt I do have to agree, I would not want someone working on my regalia that might have had a toke, or other stuff... Anyhow, read the first line*hehe*:)

05-09-2002, 05:38 PM

Better keep my mouth shut, before the foot gets in it!

ndn b-ball babe · 05-09-2002, 06:49 PM

I also agree what you do in your own home IS your business..........BUT then again........the information was volunteered in the first place.
The real issue as I see it is what gives any of us the right to judge the other!?!?!? What give any of us the right to say what is true tradtion and what isn't..........whose way is right and whose is wrong?!?!?!?
We all come from different tribes....different cultures etc.....different stories................But what truly makes us strong and makes us so powerful is that dispite all the little differences.............WE ARE ALL INDIAN...WE ARE ALL ONE!!!!!!!!!!

FIGHT THE POWER!!!!!! DAMN THE MAN!!!!!! OW!COUSIN!!!!!!!

:p

ndn b-ball babe · 05-09-2002, 06:54 PM

LASTLY.............:p

The bickering may be like old ladies.......but the negativity and the judgemenal comments remined me of WHITE PEOPLE!!!!

05-07-2002, 12:02 PM	#1 (permalink)
lsijohn Junior Dancer Join Date: Nov 2000 Posts: 168	To drink........or not to drink............ Is it acceptable to drink or drug while you are actively participating in the powwow way of life? Where I am from.........you choose one way of life or the other. If you choose to drink or drug while you are participating in the powwows, you will have bad luck. Bad luck meaning you won't be able to gather yourself, maybe drop feathers, etc. I am curious about your thoughts. One of the reasons I ask is because of a reply I read in the "fringe help" thread. Buckskin Lady talks about having a few drinks (granted that it was her birthday), then working on a dress after she's had her drinks, so that someone could take the dress to a powwow.

05-07-2002, 01:10 PM	#2 (permalink)
nativegal Putin' a lil jingle in it Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Dirty Dirty South Posts: 424 Blog Entries: 1	Personally I don't think it's right to dance or enter the circle while under the influence of ANYTHING!!!! Not even going to a powwow after being under the influence. Just my opinion. I was taught that the circle is sacred and you should not do that. And that you shouldn't go to a powwow under the influence out of respect for yourself and others. __________________ What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger!!!!

05-07-2002, 02:29 PM	#3 (permalink)
Powwowtrail17 Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: B.C. (canada) Posts: 30	To drink or not to drink...that is the question Myself I think it is a matter of respect. When you join the powwow circle and put on regalia or sing at a drum you need to respect it. If you drink or do drugs you are disrespectin' yourself, regalia, outfit...especially the feathers. My point is that "no" I don't think that the two should ever be mixed, I think its just disrespectful.

05-07-2002, 03:39 PM	#5 (permalink)
buckskinlady Southern Buckskin Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Oklahoma and on the pow-wow trail Posts: 115	I absolutely do not condone drinking or drugging anywhere around a pow-wow and definitely not if you are going to participate. The two definitely do not go together at all. What I do in my own home is my own business and I can see that some of you are not mature enough to know that drinking in moderation in the privacy of your own home does not make you a fall down drunk. That was just a one-time incident that I thought was funny, but obviously, it was not taken that way. And I believe I said to definitely NOT do what I did! I'm lucky and I'm grateful to God that I do not have an alcohol problem...but I have many friends and too many relatives who do and it affects me every day of my life. I pray for them all the time and pray for the patience and tolerance to live with them. By the way I pray before I cut any hide and there are in no way any bad vibes going on while I HAND SEW my dresses. If redfringe and ndn b-ball babe have a problem with me about the sewing machine comments(and you obviosly do) or about anything else.. why don't you PM me or email!!! These posts are to help each other out...and most people don't want to read negative stuff here!! But if you want to deal with me privately....Let's go!!!! Last edited by buckskinlady; 05-07-2002 at 03:45 PM.

05-07-2002, 03:55 PM	#7 (permalink)
ndn b-ball babe Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: tribal agency--the nob Posts: 15	Anyways.............. YEAH YEAH YEAH...............BLAH BLAH BLAH..............How come if I comment on "comments" or give "just my opinion" like everyone else it is "BS"?!? Who was the one who started the negative comments inregards to "how it SHOULD be done"....................WOW, so much for the ol'1st Amendment......................Geese, I would rather be known for speaking up and giving "my opinion" or "immaturity"than the be known as a hypecrite, and the "cutting down" of other skins!!!!!! Don't we have enough pressing issues to deal with and gov't and non-Indian views holding us down?!?!?! Never thought I would see the day skin vs skin.......I'm better that you.....I'm more traditional than you.............WOW. :( I don't have to "pm" anyone....I said what I said....I mean what I mean.......deal with it!:Yell

05-07-2002, 03:19 PM	#4 (permalink)
ndn b-ball babe Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: tribal agency--the nob Posts: 15	TRUE...TRUE...TRUE!! I totally agree it is totally wrong to INDULDGE in those kinds of activities and then do traditional things. Kind of lame to hear Redfringe getting bashed for using a sewing machine to tack her fringe on her dress down.......YOU ALL KNOW WHO YOU WERE........then in the same breath laugh around about "having a few drinks" to relax or celebrate or WHATEVER.........sad man......real sad............ Using Buckskin Lady's statemet........."Thats looked down upon around here!!!!!"

05-07-2002, 03:45 PM	#6 (permalink)
ndn b-ball babe Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: tribal agency--the nob Posts: 15	Knowing that it will be MY TURN to get bashed by my fellow skins........here is the acutal statement I was talking about............", but around here, anything machine made is just looked down upon. to say it the way the elders love to put it, "It's just not done Thats the way it is."":D

05-07-2002, 03:55 PM	#8 (permalink)
buckskinlady Southern Buckskin Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Oklahoma and on the pow-wow trail Posts: 115	Yes, that is exactly what I said...and what can I say? That IS the way it is... I learned from a lot of older ladies and that's how they are!!! That's what I was taught and I've got to stick with it!!! By the way, I will never mention alcohol again here. It was probably insensitive and there is probably a serious discussion board where people can talk about this huge problem...but like I said..I live with it everyday, all around me but I don't hardly ever even socially drink and that's why (if someone knew me) that story was so funny! Never mind! It's getting worse!!

05-07-2002, 05:11 PM	#9 (permalink)
lsijohn Junior Dancer Join Date: Nov 2000 Posts: 168	Lets go, buckskin lady!!!!! You know, construction of an outfit wasn't actually what really bothered me about the "fringe help" thread. The way you construct things and the way I construct things don't really matter. You have your ways, and I have mine. We come to the boards to get help and information, and advice. You hand sew........I don't. Does that make you better? Or more native? Or more traditional? What bothered me is to see your post mentioning the fact that you consume ALCOHOL before/while you are constructing a dress. I agree with the other ladies who posted on this topic, it is DISRESPECTFUL! I don't know you. Do you expect that everyone who posts to this board should "know you"? You are a moderator on this board. Use some common sense when you are posting messages to this board. That's all I have to say about that..............

05-08-2002, 10:28 AM	#10 (permalink)
STATE Guest Posts: n/a	Personal opinion is what is being asked here. No, it is not correct to use any form of substance while dancing or even being in the arena. It is sad, but alot of our dancers and singers do use substances and then participate. As for working on an outfit while drinking, that is a personal decision, though I would not want someone working on my stuff unless they had a clear mind and heart. What frame of mind that you are in while working on a regalia is very important. These dresses and beadwork are prayed over and smudged because to most they are something special and usually will be handed down to daughters and granddaughters. My folks always said not work on your stuff, or anyone elses, if you don't feel right or are angry at someone or any kind of negativity in your heart or spirit. Because it will be transferred, especially hides and feathers since those came from our brothers who gave up life for us to use them. I think,perhaps, things got blown out of proportion and got out of hand. Whether you use a machine or not, it is your dress and your love and work goes into it, it will be just fine.

05-08-2002, 02:28 PM	#11 (permalink)
Powwowtrail17 Tiny Tot Dancer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: B.C. (canada) Posts: 30	Yep...Im with STATE. "ditto" I just wanna say to buckskin lady that your outfits are very beautiful I checked out your work the other day and I really really like it. I even wanted to know how much you charge to just sew it, but in my opinion I would not like someone working on my regalia while they are drinking....I know you probably don't work on everyone's outfit while under the influence, I would just expect that if I were to get you to fix a woman's traditional outfit for me that you would not go near alcohol while you did it. I don't know if I"m being understood correctly or what but I hope I am somewhat :)

05-09-2002, 05:35 PM	#12 (permalink)
Riverwoman Guest Posts: n/a	Geez, that bickering reminds me of old ladies:p Please keep that between you and so and so. As for the work of BucksinLady, I would almost sell my soul to the devil to have a dress that looks like that:D Cream of the crop and top quality! My hat is off to you! As for the drinking and drugs,while doing traditonal things?Hmmm Come to think of it, drinking and using drugs where never traditonal, it was just introduced by them white ***ers! I belive that if you are dancing, and doing the best that you can to live a traditiona lifestyle, no drugs, no booze! It any other words, it's bad! I try to live a good life, and drugs and booze is NOT a part of it. If you are doing that, then you are messing things up not only for yourself, but for others. I make this statement, in belief that we have our own opinions! Last edited by Riverwoman; 02-19-2003 at 09:52 AM.*

05-09-2002, 05:38 PM	#13 (permalink)
Riverwoman Guest Posts: n/a	I also agree what you do in your house, is your own business! BUt I do have to agree, I would not want someone working on my regalia that might have had a toke, or other stuff... Anyhow, read the first linehehe:)

05-09-2002, 05:38 PM	#14 (permalink)
Riverwoman Guest Posts: n/a	Better keep my mouth shut, before the foot gets in it!

05-09-2002, 06:49 PM	#15 (permalink)
ndn b-ball babe Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: tribal agency--the nob Posts: 15	I also agree what you do in your own home IS your business..........BUT then again........the information was volunteered in the first place. The real issue as I see it is what gives any of us the right to judge the other!?!?!? What give any of us the right to say what is true tradtion and what isn't..........whose way is right and whose is wrong?!?!?!? We all come from different tribes....different cultures etc.....different stories................But what truly makes us strong and makes us so powerful is that dispite all the little differences.............WE ARE ALL INDIAN...WE ARE ALL ONE!!!!!!!!!! FIGHT THE POWER!!!!!! DAMN THE MAN!!!!!! OW!COUSIN!!!!!!! :p

05-09-2002, 06:54 PM	#16 (permalink)
ndn b-ball babe Pow Wow Visitor Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: tribal agency--the nob Posts: 15	LASTLY.............:p The bickering may be like old ladies.......but the negativity and the judgemenal comments remined me of WHITE PEOPLE!!!!